Speaker 1: (00:02)
Bill, Can I help you?
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Speaker 1: Wait, who? Who are you?
I’m your host. Sam Taggart, creator of the D2D experts in D2Dcon. Is there a place we can sit down?
Well come on in.
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Speaker 2: (00:48)
Hey Everybody. This is Sam Taggart, your host with the D2D podcast. And I’m in Toronto, Canada. Actually, no, it’s Hamilton technically, right? Not even. It’s not Toronto, Hamilton, Canada and Ontario. And we are doing a podcast today with Aaron D’Angelo and Sandro Cioci, one of the, one of the owners.
And, uh, we’re actually talking about how to dive into um, really inbound leads, how to, how to manage those, how to create them, how to create branding marketing. Cause you guys did, they did $20 million in revenue in 2018 and on track to even bust through and mixed blood that this year.
So it’s, it’s super exciting to have Bohemians giants founding people 40-something years in business out of Canada and all retail. It’s not like a store market. So if you’re listening to this and you’re in Dallas or Florida where it’s like, oh yeah, we just picked up like insurance business.
Speaker 4: (01:41)
This is like, no, we close loans, we closed cash deals. Like that’s impressive. So super excited to have you guys on the show. This’ll be, this’ll be fun. Welcome out. Yeah. Thanks Sam. Awesome. Thanks for having me the last couple of days by the way, we enjoyed it. This has been fun. We, I, they flew me all the way to Canada and I, uh, I didn’t want to do, uh, some core Greek food and Canadian food, you know, Shara. Yeah, but say a, yeah. Getting me to say a I, I smelled the, yeah, we learned about eaves. Troughs. So if you’re listening to this change the term, it’s not gutter anymore. It’s Eve’s trough and a what other words? Color favorites. They’re all spelled we rough. Not Rough. Rough. No. So it’s fun like a, this is my first time to really to Canada. So that’s, it’s appreciate you kind of warm welcome.
Speaker 4: (02:30)
You get you sip of coffee to espresso here. Oh shoot. Did I did, I did. I did. I had my first little espresso shot. I figured I’d take a little sip. They got, they got the A and c a I fell into temptation. Um, no. So tell me what’s your guys’ backgrounds? I mean you obviously come from something different, you kind of, it’s a family business. Um, let’s kinda start with you Aaron. Like how’d you, was it kind of always like pre destined for you to be like take over Dad’s business? No, we tried other things. We started a three, four other
Speaker 5: (03:00)
companies, mostly service-related, tried the real estate agent angle, realized that sales was kind of a thing. And then when we came back to the business where like I think we’ve got a real shot at this, there’s a huge market that we can really hone in the sales skills. If we can grow a brand big enough, we can really create a business here and then that’s when it really took off.
Speaker 4: (03:19)
That’s awesome. So at what point did you kind of make the transition? How old were you when you kind of were like, hey, I want to jump into the roofing side.
Speaker 5: (03:25)
So I worked with dad from like right at the high school, so 17 years old. And then, uh, with him till about 2001 really small company, just me and him, he got out of it 2006, 2006. I was like, okay, this is just me. Let’s give this a shot. So we started to really push, brought on some people, had a ton of failure, didn’t really catch traction, traction till about 2008, 2009. And that’s when my brother came on board with us. And then we said, okay, let’s do this. Let’s, let’s see if we can really make some noise.
Speaker 4: (03:57)
That’s cool. And I mean to grow it to what it is, 590 reviews as a roofing company, you know, 20 million. Is it just retail? Like, I mean that’s impressive. Especially in a village like Hamilton. Just know I learned this funny, somebody knew I was coming to Ableton so they were like, oh, that’s like a village. I’m like, dude, there’s half a million people in Hamilton and try to hear is even more. It’s like guys, Toronto is massive. It’s a, isn’t it? Like what the second biggest in north, I think third, third, second, third biggest city in North America, which is huge. So, um, what about you saying you were kind of weird? What do you, where do you come from? Well, I am, I started in the finance world. I kind of was out there over 10 years doing the banking thing and uh, out of high school I went to college for marketing and then I took a business marketing class and I was like, this is cool, this is fun stuff.
Speaker 4: (04:49)
And I was kind of out of the box thinking all the time, but I was stuck in the bank world. And then Aaron called me. I knew him and his brother from, you know, family friends and their parents knew my parents. So I’m not a stranger at all, but gave me a call and said, hey, why don’t you come over and you know, we’ve got this business here, come and help us out. And so I took the leap and it’s been great ever since. Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. So what do you guys feel like some of your growing pains were from going from like, you know, 2000 let’s call it six, eight in that range where it’s kind of this little like, Eh, me doing this thing to now where it’s $20 million in revenue. I mean like obviously kind of ran into a few roadblocks and probably inefficiencies. Is there anything that you felt like kind of stands out that’s like, oh, do you need a longer, yeah, longer
Speaker 5: (05:30)
podcasts and just a few minutes. Like everything pretty much can fail on every level. But fulfillment is a big factor in Ontario. We’re short a manpower, which I think, you know, talking with companies all over North America in general, everybody says the same thing. Yeah, we’re, we’re short labor. So labor is a big factor. We had to get innovative to be able to fulfill that much business. And when you’re doing average project, you know, each year we’re kind of around 10,000 for an average project right now. That’s a lot of administration to go along with that too. So you have to really tighten up process and procedure to be able to pump 20 million worth of eight to $10,000 at a time. So those were the things we had to get our heads around and clean up enough crews, make them polished enough so that our reputation isn’t heard either. That’s a big factor because we ran into a bit of that,
Speaker 4: (06:19)
I can say, to maintain that good of a reputation and have that big of scale. It’s a tough combination. Well, it’s cool driving around. And actually I ran, I saw truck, like, you know what I mean? And they’re not even trucks, their sprinter vans, which is even cooler. It’s kind of a unique, you know, we’ve got two guys that are in roofing, but one drives a BMW and drives an Audi. I’m like, where’s the trucks? And they drive sprinter beds. And I’m like, yes, this is innovative. This is not the typical roof. Like I love it. Um, so you know, you’ve got this brand where you’ve, you know, you could probably go, like, I was out to dinner with the alarm company out of it. We are no Oakland, Oakville. Um, and I was like, yeah, I’m working with, Angelo was like, oh Daniel. Like the fact that the dude knew you guys, like did, you just knew you.
Speaker 4: (07:05)
It’s like, that’s impressive. Like that’s hard to get to. So like what are some best practices and what do we want to dive into is just kind of, you know, what have you done to kind of maintain a brand or, or what have you done that’s unique? Like you, like Sandra? I guess I, I direct this to you because you studied marketing. You know, you’re in banking, you’re like, wait, but I’ve got this creativeness and I want to do marketing and blah, blah, blah. Like what have you done to kind of keep that and market it yourself because you guys fill your sales guys as calendars every day. Like, well we, the, the key to it is not just doing one thing. You kind of have to do them all and you have to do them all consistently and also frequency. So if you’re doing the newspaper or something and you do it one month and then you stop and you’re going to be like, well, I didn’t get any leads from Ang to turn it off.
Speaker 4: (07:49)
The fact that you have to be in there 12 months a year is, is the, is the brand power that you’re going to create. You won’t see, you may not see at first month, but then six months after you’re like, something’s going on here. So it’s definitely the frequency and the consistency of the message too. If the messaging on the truck is the same that’s in the newspaper and it’s the same that’s on the radio and it’s the same that’s on your lawn sign. Now they don’t even remember where they saw you, but it’s all the same. So it’s hitting them three or four times when they do see you. So that you see some guy in Oakville now and it’s like, hey, I know them. Like I don’t even know how he saw us, but he’s, if you have mixed messaging, they’re not gonna, you’re not gonna get that many hits.
Speaker 4: (08:25)
It’s gonna think of a different company. Right. So, so what’s your message like? How did you kind of determine your message or your story? Like what, what are some of the things that you’ve kind of branded yourself as? Well, a big one was, um, the kind of our branding of the dangelo roofing. Dot. Ca We, and we kind of worked on that with Aaron a lot, where it was a, well, who we are, what we do, and how to find us in one location in one word and one quick message. Right? So that’s, that was our big kind of our home run I think. Cool. Definitely. And then I know she goes with the back of the trucks. You guys kind of use this like dog cause this mascot. Like how often are you using this dog and what made you think of a dog on the back of the truck in this riff riff riff like yeah we created a jingle probably I’m gonna say three or four years ago. That’s on the radio. Go ahead.
Speaker 6: (09:15)
Yeah.It’s kind of that from that song. So it,
Speaker 4: (09:22)
I’m a DJ background and one day I was driving to work and I was like that roof roof and like we do roofing, I’m like we could like tie the sin. So I called, um, Tom actually was one of our sales guys now, but he used to work in the radio station. I said Tom, I’ve got a great idea for like a jingle. And he’s like, yeah that’s a great idea. So he takes it his team and they changed the wording a bit cause we couldn’t use because of copper a but we basically had an awesome jingle. Now that’s who do you know? D’Angelo roof, roof, roof, roof, roof. So it’s on the radio. Everyone hates it, but it’s great because
Speaker 5: (09:52)
it’s in their head all the time. Right? It’s annoying. We want that to a point though. One we stopped at a stop sign, someone stoplight, someone will roll up beside us and roll the window down and started screaming, you know, and then our workers are like D’Angelo and it’s like kind of like, yeah.
Speaker 4: (10:06)
Yeah. So that’s cool. So now we’ve taken that and we’re like, we need a dog mascot. We need a dog around here. Some. So we started taking that Djing on, embracing it and putting it on the advertising as well. And then that’s why you’ll see a dog on the back of the truck and he says roof, roof, roof. And everybody’s like, that’s the jingle. And it’s all tying together and it’s, it’s a massive marketing push that even further than what we’ve been doing. And we think it’s going to be a massive, uh, just,
Speaker 5: (10:32)
just massive. I basically look for everything we can to put our name on too. Like it doesn’t matter. We converted regular been service. Most people have been delivery. We got our own bins and we branded bins. Um, all of our vehicles, they are mobile billboards. So that was huge for us. So lawn signs, billboards, anything we can wrap, we wrap, try to put as much noise out there as we can. So how do you capture this? Okay, so you’ve put all this noise out
Speaker 4: (10:58)
and a lot of times you’re like, is the noise doing anything? I’m assuming this questions you’ve had, you’ve had like we put a billboard or we do the this or the signs or brand this. Like how do you track, how do you calculate, how do you know your Roi based on inbound? You know your phone’s ringing so it’s doing something. But is there a way that you guys have found a way to kind of make sure that you’re picking up the fruit when it’s falling? Yeah. So first off has got to make sure you’ve got a customer service team that’s in place that can manage these leads. Because if you do all that noise and then you can’t take the call or take that inbound lead, you just wasted all your money and wasted all your time. So make sure that um, you know, very strong and once that, and they have a great process and once that is that they will capture all the leads.
Speaker 4: (11:42)
And then we also asked when we have one question, we don’t get too deep into it, but how did you hear about us on the phone every time? And then we track it in our CRM and we pull reporting. Now you’d be surprised when those reports come. You’ll be like, okay, these, that certain person said that he, you know, he saw us on a lawn sign say, but if we’ve tested this, if you ask them a second question, have you ever seen our trucks? They’ll say, yes. Have you ever heard us on the radio? They would say yes. So really that one item that they called in for, it’s, it’s, it wasn’t really it. So if those numbers are almost skewed because we know, because we’re doing everything, that’s why we’re getting the lead. If we were only doing one thing, we would know that like that.
Speaker 4: (12:27)
That’s where we’re getting our leads and that’s why they’re so low. But at the fact that they’re getting hit on so many levels, they don’t even know where they saw us. They just think of the last time they saw us and tell us that was it. Yeah, that’s the big one. Um, do you do much on social media, like Facebook advertising or, we did do a little bit on Facebook. We’re going to up it up a amp that up a bit this year. We want to get the social media going. Our Instagram is kind of just are kind of a company culture page and we were at the home shows, we’ll post it, um, for lead generating. We don’t use it too, too much now, but we’ll, we’ll get there this year. We’re going to kind of push the Imedia I pushed this year. Cool. Yeah. So let’s talk about handling the leads.
Speaker 4: (13:05)
You have customer service. Yeah. They kind of filter that lead and kind of see where did you hear from us? Okay. Did they schedule an appointment right then and there? Yeah. So they uh, take the phone, call the inquiry on the website, on the email or whatever, uh, qualify it and whether it’s got to go to, you know, a service. Is it a service lead or is it a full replacement lead? And then we go to, um, we schedule it right into our, we have all our guys calendars and we scheduled right in there with a time that’s convenient for the client right then and there. There’s no call backs. There’s no cause then if you have to call them back, you might not get them on the phone. So you want to get them all done right there. Customer experience, it’s gotta be dead on and under maybe a minute so that the client’s not wasting a lot of time either.
Speaker 4: (13:47)
Especially when the phone and they don’t get somebody on our line here. The success rate of getting them back on the phone is very bad. Yeah. And I’ve noticed that in my own business. It’s like we’ve struggled, we have a lot of inbound than it’s like, cause we put out a lot of noise and it’s like, man, I struggle at like systematizing, making sure that someone answers that phone every time. And so if you’re listening to this and then to answer your call like I apologize, it’s, yeah, we’re still figuring that out. So let me ask you this, like what from a sales guy’s perspective, like Uk, I’ve got a lead on my calendar or I was handed a lead appointment, was set. What, what’s best practices going up to the home or making sure that that converts at the highest level of the first time. So it’s not this like kicking tires or you know, like is there any best practices you’d say like make sure your sales guys does this and it has a higher success rate.
Speaker 5: (14:39)
How do our guys close more? Yeah. Well one of the key things is they love working here because we put out so much noise. So the being the big guy in town, that brand recognition is there. So these guys are going up the door. They feel like the big guy and a lot of times customer express expect us to be substantially higher. And when we’re there like, well you’re, you’re kind of almost the same price, maybe slightly higher, a little bit higher than that. That’s great. And we see, yeah, that’s, that’s perfectly normal. But you’ve obviously seen us around, we’re going to be around for a long time. We’re not going anywhere. Like that’s kind of our stick. We’ve been around since 78 but the common stats are that like 80% go out of business in the first few years, you know, they don’t know how to run a business or for whatever reason they’re gone. So we’re going to be here and the guys love working for us because they know that it’s kind of like fishing with dynamite makes it easy for them and we drive that. Uh, we really push that.
Speaker 4: (15:29)
That’s cool. So just you pushed the reputation and the solidity. So let’s say I’m a startup company, what advice would you give them? Where would you say put your focus first? Like, you know, they might not have a half million dollar budget to go spend on marketing every year. You know what I mean? Like, so what, what advice would you give kind of that little guy that’s like, I’m still trying to figure it out. Door knock. No, and, and, and, and, and that guys, here’s what’s so cool and I’m glad that you said that because guys, this is a traditional business that has 20 million revenue and why do they have same Taggart in his office? Like, you know what I mean? It’s like, why wait saying, why are you even out there? This is d two d right? And it’s, they’re saying, how do we disrupt ourselves? Right? And it’s like, yeah, why, why, why start Dornoch like, why, why have me out? Why? What’s the next?
Speaker 5: (16:17)
That’s such a good question. Like, it’s easy for us to say, like Sandra just said, well, we don’t know exactly what works. Well if you spend 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a month in advertising, 10 $20,000 gets wasted. It’s like, well, it was some brand recognition. It is what it is. It’s not the end of the world. But if you’re starting off and you’ve got to start pumping these numbers out, that’s kind of real. It’s maybe coming from, who knows where. That’s a lot of money. So start off doorknocking continued door knocking. I’m sure we’re loving it. We’re embracing it. We’re going to eat, sleep, breathe the door knock. But starting off, why not push that even harder? If you get one lead, come in gray, go to that one lead. But man, canvas the whole area. And then when you actually get a job, embrace it. See I’m, I’m here, I’m doing this one. I’m going to get all the leads around it and they cost me nothing.
Speaker 4: (17:01)
So this is what’s interesting and if I’m not, I’m trying, I’m trying to cross any boundaries, but like what’s, I always get nervous going to companies like this, right? There’s kind of these, there’s these boundaries that a lot of people have. Like I’m not a door to door company, right? Like, like I, I get that all the time. Like, I’ll go speak and I’ll go, you know, train a bunch of companies and they’re like, oh, but we don’t do door to door. We don’t want to be seen as that guys are, didn’t like, I could never do that. Like they’re kind of almost used the marketing as a crutch. I think what makes you guys unique, which I just learned today after a couple of days working with you guys, it was, you know, you guys have door knocked your whole lives, you know what I mean? Like it Jehovah’s Witness.
Speaker 4: (17:38)
Like, am I okay to say that? Like, you know, and it’s, it’s the fact that it’s like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. You could like, you got this, like you’re already part of the tribe. Like it’s like, you know what it’s like, and that just kind of gave me this like, oh yeah, they got it. Um, and I think it’s this, this cultural like acceptance. If you can just say, look, we get what door knockings like we know that feeling, we know how it is. Like this is an easy transition. Like this is a in kind of speak to that for a second.
Speaker 5: (18:06)
Well you just said like what’s if I’m a new business, how do I launch? You know, to, to answer to that, how do I launch? We’re a new business in new markets. Like here we are fully embracing Hamilton and we’re really kicking some butt. Great. I’m not saying we’re the, we’re the best or anything, but we’re doing pretty good and we’re saying let’s move into a new market. How do we do this? Well, what can we do? Can we just go through our list and say, yeah, let’s, let’s start doing some billboards and some ads in this. Well, we’re going to put our money where our mouth is and do what you’re saying because look, we are new. We’re going to be new in that market and were we knew what it took to get here and the amount of advertising dollars to get her phone to ring like this.
Speaker 5: (18:42)
It doesn’t seem like it’s worth it. It’s a tougher go. Tough go. It’s a way tougher. Go to go like this. We had 10 years of eaten dirt, you know, spending money trying to get the ball rolling. Now it’s easy. Sure, sure. If it was working at we have momentum now. That’s great. And the momentum kind of gets it going. But Dornoch yeah, we’re used to door knocking. No problem. Door knock, you know, get somebody’s angry at you. Sure. But they actually need this service so we can see your roof needs something doing one down the street. Would you be so inclined to let us give you a free inspection? Like why not? And we’ll probably get, I don’t know, you know the stats, but I’m sure I’ll get a hundred no’s. But to get one or two yeses a day, that’s huge. And what did that cost me as a company? Nothing. Just sales commission. Um, advertising budget can go towards it too. Great. And it’s a way to infiltrate how someone views us. Well, who cares? Who Cares? Who cares about their gone.
Speaker 4: (19:34)
Yeah. And I think that like that’s a lesson to be said for a lot of people. Like a lot of people because like you just said, Sandra, you’re like, there are so many times it was just like throwing money and it’s like that is called the toilet. Like flush that 50 grand, you know. Do you have any interesting stories of that? Like where it’s kind of like, oh that was miss while he likes to talk. Yes, let’s hear it. I think I hit a quarter. We spent a ton of money on billboards. I mean we like it. We have mobile billboards everywhere, like our tracks. But we said let’s, I got sold on the billboards that are at the corners and, and I’m not saying they didn’t work, but the stats, when they called in and said they didn’t see our billboards, we spend,
Speaker 5: (20:18)
it’s probably close to 106 figures on it. Yeah, no you can, you can put it into a different funnel though and say, look, there’s brand recognition dollars and then there’s direct campaigns that lead to leads. Like it’s like I did this, I got a lead, I put a promo. Is it called to action? I got to lead. So we’re not going to say that the campaign didn’t work. It’s just a hundred thousand bucks.
Speaker 4: (20:39)
The law. Any money. Yeah. And I think a lot of people that’s like the and, and, and yeah. I mean you just play big, you’re playing big and it’s like sometimes when you play big you miss and sometimes when you play big it’s like, oh wow, that was like super sick. And do you have any stories like that where you’re like, man, that hundred thousand dollars, so I was like the best thing in the planet. Do you have any of those?
Speaker 5: (20:59)
Which one worked well, you can run through the list and talk about the strength of each one. But like you still have strengthened online. Yeah. Online too. You can’t, you can’t be a player without having an online presence that’s constantly being worked on.
Speaker 4: (21:12)
So do you spend some kind of meaningful dollars on SEO or, yeah, stuff like that. Cool money there. And we just redid the website last year too. So always keep your up, your website updated if you can make sure it’s fast, make sure it’s um, you know, iPhone friendly. Um, are no mobile phone friendly? No, we don’t talk. Sam, don’t leave me out of this. Come on Sandra. But yeah, so just updating your stuff online then the reviews is big. Like that’s why we have, I think over 500 for sure on to make sure your reviews it cause Google kicked you up. If you have the high reviews, Hashtag Vanilla people check it out. Vanilla good.com. No, but I mean that’s like, I’m, I’m such an advocate that I believe in that so much. I bought it f and software company that does that because I was like, what if you could knock a door and just be like, yeah, we have 500 reviews and a, the next closest says 50s, so, uh, who do you want to go with? It’s like, let’s be real and just, it’s, it’s a huge selling feature. So I liked that you said that. Yeah. Um, so what’s next for you guys? Where’s the future? Where’s the, where’s the vision? I think Sam knows what we’re going to say. Oh yeah, that’s your,
Speaker 5: (22:20)
so outbound. We’re, we’re embracing it. We’re loving it. Uh, the whole canvas and junior sales reps and the big push into the market, we’re going to embrace it. We’re gonna spend the next three months like actively putting massive action towards creating a team that is ready to get their head kicked in quite a bit. It’s almost like a expect failure, but then look at what that small funnel creates. You know, by the time it boils down to your day or the end of the week, the numbers, there’s companies that make us look like just a little kids. So when we look at what these guys are doing, the numbers speak for themselves. We have no choice. That’s the route you have to go.
Speaker 4: (22:59)
I love it. I love it. Um, so last question, and I appreciate you guys having me out here and being on the podcast. You know, I was just like, guys, we got thrown in a podcast. This is, this is fine. We’re not ready. Like this threw it on him. So if you guys are listening to this, give him a big love and like for just sharing their nuggets. Um, but one, if you could give the industry, we’ll call it, let’s just call it the home improvement industry. Let’s specify, um, what, what, what piece of advice would you give them?
Speaker 5: (23:27)
You know, we copy bigger companies than us and smaller companies might take a look at us and say, what are, what are these guys doing? You know, what’s the advice? Uh, be happy with the winds that you do get cause they keep you motivated. Uh, embrace the, the small stuff throughout the day where you’re like, hey, okay, I did pretty good. I did better than yesterday and I’m motivated. I’m positive. I’m going to have some, I’m not going to snap my fingers and all of a sudden be $20 million. It didn’t get there for us. Like this is 20 years of like really grinding to get to a point that we’re here and you’re gonna hit your ceilings. Whether your ceiling is 500,000, your ceiling can be a million, might be 2 million or $20 million ceiling. We’ve been here for three, four years. We’re having a hard time. So that’s why we brought Sam out.
Speaker 5: (24:12)
So just enjoy the wins, look at companies that are doing it better than you. And it might be outside of your circle. It might be outside of your market, you know, open up your wings and checkout companies all over North America and say, what are these guys doing? Like what? Nevermind the two, three guys around me, what are guys doing elsewhere? And all of a sudden you’re going to, your eyes are going to be open to say, oh shoot, there’s guys that are like just crushing it. We’re, we’re like, wow, we’re behind you started implementing maybe one thing at a time. If you try to just say, well, I’m going to come become them now, pick one thing and do it well. And then when you get that next thing and the next thing and eventually you’ll have a nice structure.
Speaker 4: (24:50)
I love it. I love it. What about you Sandra? Yeah, I think um, that’s a big one because we kind of do it together and it’s kind of, I follow Erin Erin’s lead and that’s kind of what we’ve been doing and it’s been working. I think I’ve been here seven years and every year at least one or two massive things that we do. And just to keep pushing
Speaker 5: (25:09)
the envelope. One big one is get the right people on the bus. That’s the big one. Good was one of one of the big books that really pushed us because if you get the right people on the bus, doesn’t matter if we’re going to do roofs or siding or whatever, we’re going to get into, create a good team, guys around you that are in your circle that all share a similar view. And it’s like, man, we’re motivated. My brother’s motivated. Sandra’s motivated guys that are in involved in sales or whatever avenue your business. Make sure that these guys are the right people. If they’re not fire fast, move on. Don’t, don’t keep them along.
Speaker 4: (25:36)
Great Advice. Great Advice. Well guys, I appreciate you guys being on the show. If you guys like this, reach out to enjoy roofing. They’re awesome. And uh, honestly I love Canada except that a, the weather’s not that great day.
Speaker 7: (25:49)
I appreciate it guys. We’ll see you. Thank you.