Speaker 1: (00:02)
Bill, Can I help you?
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I’m your host. Sam Taggart, creator of the DDD experts in Ddd con. Is there a place we can sit down?
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Speaker 2: (00:49)
Alright, I’m Sam Taggart, your host with the DDD podcast. And I’m here with Chandler Smith who has done some phenomenal things in and outside the industry. So he is a regional manager, at Aptive pest control, right? That’s the title. Yeah. He’s a speaker at D2D con. So we’re going to hear from you more. We’re excited. Obviously you’re from that. And not only is he done 20,000 pest-control counts was just more than most pest control companies. Right. And if you took the next, I mean that’s, yeah. What company does that within the company you did more than most companies, right? Yeah. Um, and you managed how many reps? I mean, how many is that?
Speaker 3: (01:29)
Um, well, during the summer, you know, 150 to 200 reps every summer, probably 800 plus over the last five, six years. So.
Speaker 2: (01:37)
So for all my roofing people that are like, I can’t handle that more than 550, what’s up Tom? You’re the man. So it at the end of the day, like to put things into perspective, some of those people, I mean, that’s 150 bodies that you’re, you know, babysitting, essentially leading, influencing. Right. Um, but not only that, he’s taken his earnings and lived like a poor man for the last, how many years? I’m a couple. Yeah. Starting off the first, I think I lived for the first two or three
Speaker 3: (02:07)
Years, but then the real estate started paying for my lifestyle. So,
Speaker 2: (02:10)
So he’s taking the rich dad poor dad concept and he has, you have how many doors now? So I just passed 60 doors, 60 plus doors in real estate. So I mean somebody is like, hey, why do door to door sales? And I’m like, so you can get more doors and from doors. So yeah, no. So that’s what’s cool is that, and we’re going to dive into a little bit of your, your philosophy and how, and you know, we just did a podcast on, hey, don’t do that as dinker. Uh, we just did a podcast on some real estate stuff from Jason the other day and I want to get a little different perspective because you’re coming from our space. So, um, we’ll dive into that. And then, uh, obviously like just your how to do that. I, I’m like, you know, I do real estate with 60 something doors. I mean, one, that’s a lot of headache and that’s a lot of like learning and, and fail.
Speaker 4: (03:00)
I’m sure there’s some cool stories there. So yeah, welcome to welcome to the show, man. Thanks. Glad to be here. Yeah, isn’t fun. So if you know, if you know Chandler, um, give him a little love and give them a little smiley face like this comment. Uh, we’d love to hear from you guys. So this is, this is a tree. So the first question I have is now he’s asked this, who recruited you and how’d you get into the space? You know, I uh, I originally started, I was looking around right after serving a mission and I was trying to figure out, you know, where to go and on James Graves had approached me and a couple of my buddies was my first podcast. Very first of all, so big shout out to James Circle. Yeah. So James and Chase Williams on or the ones that kind of snag me in that first year.
Speaker 4: (03:44)
Were you, how’d you hear? Yeah, you’re friends. So yeah, I had actually had three of my buddies that were planning on going to another company with me and we were all on the fence and then they introduced me to those guys and it was kind of game over. We all felt good about it and went, okay, so you and your, or are they still doing it or did they all suck? You know, the way they did well, but they’re all over the place. Cool. So cool. That’s like a whole posse, you know, that’s usually the case, right? It’s kind of like the survival of the fittest. Totally. You know, it’s very true. So, and it’s funny because I went out with all of them in my first week. I was terrible. Yeah, I was going to say, what was this first weeks like? Yeah, well in past, I mean obviously everybody usually gets to sell their first couple of days.
Speaker 4: (04:24)
It’s a pretty easy sell for the most part. But I went an entire week without selling. So out of the 40 guys that were in that office, you’re the embarrassed was the only one that didn’t have any sales. How did that, like what does it feel like? A lot of people think the guy that manages 20,000 accounts, it has never had a rough week or you know what I mean? But like, like what was going through your head? You’re feeling like, where were you at that first week? Um, I think I knew I wasn’t going to quit, but every day it’s like, all right, what’s my worst case scenario in the hell? If I keep on my average, I’m still at zero on the summer, so I really got to get at least one under the belt. So it was just, I don’t know, you’re thinking worst case scenarios and then things clicked for me after a week I got one sale and it was flagellation.
Speaker 4: (05:08)
Yeah. So at the end day seven one cell, and then everything flips. So within an hour from that first sale I had four. Oh Wow. Just kind of boom. Yeah. How many did you do that for summer? So I did 459 oh wow. First summer, 459 accounts. That’s a lot. So that, I mean the average pest control rep for those that don’t know, it’s probably what probably nowadays one 5,280 yeah, that’s crazy. So fast forward, you’re like, Hey, I’m going to manage. Did you get right into management or did it take you awhile? Obviously, it took me a minute. So the first summer, so chase Williams had the rookie rap record and I ended up breaking his record at all Tara by three accounts and that motivation. So I stayed right until the end and I pushed hard. So when I came back I was just on fire. I was stoked to do it again. So
Speaker 3: (05:58)
I got a team of probably 12 to 15 guys. Um, and that summer went good. But that was out of every summer. I’ve done the hardest summer just because I brought out a lot of people that now I probably wouldn’t have brought, now I say first year managing kicks you in the days. Yeah. And you take everything personally and you’re still trying to sell really well. And so that was, it was the hardest summer I’ve ever done. Um, but I feel like because of that experience, it kind of propelled me into everything. So I pulled out a couple of incredible guys from that summer that ended up leading teams and just kind of took off. So every year we were growing. I feel like my first five or six years I was getting, you know, a hundred percent growth every year because things were just blown up. So it was a lot of fun. That’s awesome.
Speaker 2: (06:42)
Hey, what’s up after this? Yeah, so I’m here with my daughter. We’re doing this at my house that everybody, so she’s, we’d been playing sick. Tom, what’s up? He’s he, you know, tell him Karen. He’s, yeah, he’s awesome. Okay, so the next question I have, you wrote an article, tell us about this article and I think a lot of people in the door to our industry saw that, you know, I was actually shocked at how much hype this got. So what, what was it called? I can’t remember
Speaker 3: (07:10)
Title all. And I think it was just, I’m a summer salesman or something like that. And I remember the title,
“There’s like this weird negative connotation”
Speaker 2: (07:16)
But it was just so, so I’ll put it. So I am a summer salesman. He writes this like blog posts that kind of went door to door viral. It’s like, you know, and, and it was so inspiring because you know, and I want you to tell us a lot more about it, but essentially it was embodying this new movement, this new mission to take, take some pride. It’s like coming out of the closet and essentially if I’m a door to door salesmen and I, and I and I own that, you know what I mean? It’s like I finally, I finally accepted the, the, the title of that, you know, or I’m a summer salesman where, you know, I mean in Utah County it’s like, oh, I don’t date some are salesman or it’s like, oh, is this sweet bro? Like whatever. You know what I mean? There’s like this weird negative connotation or like I don’t want to tell my uncle that I had knocked doors because that’s embarrassing. So like you wrote this article and it was around this whole concept of like owning that. Tell us a little bit about kind of your theory behind it and a little bit more into that article.
Speaker 3: (08:11)
Yeah. I just, I dunno, I think, honestly, I think it was a day after I was at church and I was in a new ward and people were asking me what I did and I realized I literally was ashamed to try and somehow tell them when I had done. And it had always been that way when people would ask what family, relatives, all of that. And so it just reached a point where I was like, you know what? Forget this. I mean, I’ve got a ton of guys that I feel like I’ve really been able to impact their lives. This job puts you, where do you want to be so much faster? It’s making it so kids aren’t in school that it’s making so they can get into real estate, start businesses. It’s an incredible opportunity and I’m just going to own it. Like I’m sick of people not being willing to own it because this job is the best in the world. It literally is. And
Speaker 5: (09:01)
Yeah. And so I,
Speaker 3: (09:02)
He put the article together and I really wanted people to understand that, first of all, we’re not jerks. We’re not a lot of the things that people think that we are, but we are very skilled. We’re talented, we’re hardworking, we’ve got a lot of finesse. I mean all of this skill set that is some sales I wanted people to understand because it really is an incredible industry and anyone that takes advantage of it, whatever they do in life, whether they stay in this or do something else, yeah, they do it way better than their competitors because of the experience they had here.
Speaker 4: (09:34)
So true. And it’s like you kind of went through debunking these myths, like you have to be dishonest. It’s like, no, you don’t like, I know a bunch of very honest people that go door to door or what were some of these other myths that you kind of debunked to the world? I guess?
Speaker 3: (09:49)
I think first of all, that honesty, integrity and it’s like, no, I mean the guys, you know this from experience, the guys that are dishonest fail. They really do. They try.
Speaker 4: (10:01)
I think that their lifeline or the, the life expectancy of their career in door to door is actually shorter at that time.
Speaker 3: (10:07)
Totally. I mean, you can go a period of time and find success in sales being dishonest, but it can’t last because it starts to eat it. Those reps, they don’t retain recruits. They don’t retain accounts. Yeah, exactly. And so that was a big one I wanted to get rid of. The other one is the tool mindset.
Speaker 5: (10:24)
Wait, you’re saying you’re not, I’m a tool. I don’t have good muscle mass this morning. And that’s the thing is, yeah,
Speaker 3: (10:33)
I, I don’t know, I feel like people talk about doctors and lawyers and I really tried to see it in the right way in the article, but I was frustrated that a doctor can drive a nice car and live a nice lifestyle and have muscles
Speaker 5: (10:48)
Maybe. Yeah. I mean, maybe they do. Maybe they don’t. What you’re telling me, I’m aspiring to have a good body. Well, Arnold Schwarzenegger is an idiot too, is a tool. Totally. Yeah. I mean, all of these
Speaker 3: (11:00)
Things that in any other job, they’re looked up to there. There’s something to aspire to. But in this job, your tool, if you found success, if you have a nice house, if you can take care of your family the way you want to, if you can reach your dreams and your goals
Speaker 4: (11:14)
And build a real estate portfolio of 60 homes by the age of how old, you know, it’s like, oh, I’m sorry that I did that. Totally. But why does the, why does society call that tool on? Why do you think that is? I think, I think a lot of times people think that we are irresponsible because we were young. I think it’s a young group of people on. But the thing that’s so cool is I think this job forces a lot of people out of youth and some of them that makes you grow up fat. It really does. And some of them don’t handle that well, but their doc, there are tons of doctors and lawyers and everything else that don’t handle, handle that well. And it had to do it after
Speaker 2: (11:54)
Med school. So they’re just even in their thirties but they’re still young and like business and an actual career mode. And definitely it’s there.
Speaker 3: (12:02)
Yeah. And what people don’t understand is, you know, I have the lifestyle I want and even now with my region, I still go knock doors. I still have people tell me that I’m Schleman x, Y and Z. And so I really feel like when it comes to you looking at income in comparison to humility, we’re the greatest group of people because we’re willing to Humber humble ourselves and deal with that on a daily basis. And so if nothing else, I’m not trying to put US above other people. I just think we should at least be right there. You know I do too. It says
Speaker 2: (12:33)
It’s like the whole speech I gave at door didn’t work on last year was around like Ddd B to B, B to c, c d x Qr to the cute, like whatever it is. I’m just like, okay, it’s this, it’s, it’s everybody’s knocking on doors. Like I think the next book on our ride is more general to the world and it’s like you knocked doors, like everyone knocks a door. And I think it’s just so funny that our avenue is so frowned on when it’s like, why wouldn’t you frown on the guy that’s posting a Facebook ad? It’s like, how? How terrible, how low of you he’s trying to get your business a terrible that thought bubble. You’re just scum trying to sell something like home depot. The lady today at office depot is like, Hey, you should get this extra protection plan. And I’m like, you scum low life?
Speaker 2: (13:30)
No, she’s an office depot. She’s a dandy but thing. Yeah. I mean it’s like so funny and I just like, I, I, it was that feeling of you being around this group of non doorknockers and you just feeling that shame. It’s like we all go through that and it’s just like, how do we help inspire everyone else to just say, do, you don’t have to feel that like it’s, we’re a tribe and it’s okay that we do what we do and let’s help society see that. You know what I mean? So I was glad that like, that’s where it kind of got you on my radar. I was like, oh this guy’s legit. Like what a cool article I shared. So it kind of lets move into like the real estate game. Cause I um, and then I have a couple of questions on recruiting because okay, well let’s actually go, really are recruiting and then real estate at the end.
Speaker 2: (14:13)
So if you’re listening to this, it’s one, how do you get 150 reps? I mean rent dre owns a pest control company who’s on this right now. I mean we’ve had multiple owners and it’s like how do you, I know many people that would die, they would give their left arm for 150 reps. You know what I mean? It’s like what have you done? And some just good best practices to grow at that rate. You know, it’s, I’m sure it’s not easy, but, um, if you had to give advice to an up and coming manager and owner or something like that, that’s what’s helped you get there.
Speaker 3: (14:43)
You know, I would love to say it’s all me and it’s what I had done. But honestly I grabbed on to all the right people. I mean, the people within my region are on a higher level than I am most time.
Speaker 5: (14:59)
It’s true, it’s true.
“You got to get your reps”
Speaker 3: (15:09)
And I think a lot of times it’s just grabbing onto the right people and then taking care of them. I think it’s easy to get caught up. I mean, this is an industry where tomorrow matters a lot and you’ve got to get somebody close today. You got to get your reps, you got to get ready for the summer. And I think just remembering to take care of your people because I just, so much of the growth and the value and everything else, I really do feel like I’ve worked hard to take care of my people. And that’s been reciprocated. I mean, the more you give, I feel like it always comes back tenfold. And that’s been a huge advantage. Um, and then I think putting in the time you can grab onto someone great. But if you’re not willing to consistently work your butt off for them, then that’s not going to work. And so the perfect combination of the right people and being willing to work harder than anyone else. So that your reps are willing to fall in line and follow and want to be a part of that.
Speaker 2: (16:02)
So I think you said something super important because why do a lot of leaders want to recruit? What’s their motivation?
Speaker 3: (16:09)
I think a lot of people are motivated just for the money or for them or for the wrong things. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (16:14)
And then you notice that that it’s the wrong motive. It’s, it’s either that or they say, well I just want a bunch of busy bees to go do it and then I want to sit back and kind of make money off of my
Speaker 3: (16:25)
Busy bees. It is so true. And I think that’s something that’s been way hard for me. This was the first year I didn’t go out in the summer and I struggled, man, it was a harder summer than other summers because these are my friends. This is the guys I love, I care about. And obviously I was still traveling for two months of the summer. But yeah, I mean leadership and holding on to guys, it’s just being there with them. It’s doing everything you can. It’s sharing those experiences. And that’s why I, I mean, it sounds funny, but my guys are just the best and they’re all on the same level that I am. And I think that’s made a huge difference.
Speaker 2: (16:57)
Big shout out if you’re all listening people, um, you got a great leader here. Uh, no. So then the next question would be, we had this conversation, this is so interesting because we were just jamming and this like sparked a new topic that we don’t talk a lot about on this. Um, the dilemma, the inner dilemma that you’ve watched witnessed yourself and watched others deal with is this, am I, if I go to feed in, am I, you know, it’s playing this game of like, what’s my exit strategy versus my, my like two feet in strategy. Right? And it’s this balance between guys that are successful and not successful in this. At what point in the game did you kind of just go, I’m two feet in and here’s why I’m doing it versus, oh, I’ll do this for a summer to pay for school. Where was that shift in your career?
Speaker 3: (17:48)
Um, you know, I think when I realized that I wasn’t going to find something that I loved or was as good at as I was at this, and I think that just clicked with really for me it was when I saw some of my guys hit that next level. I mean when you’ve got guys that you care about that you’ve seen struggle their first year and they’re making $200,000 plus and they’re starting to invest and they’re starting to take care of people and change their lives and build teams and do things even with their team that maybe you didn’t do on that next level. That was where it was like, man this is special because it’s easy to be all in knocking doors. I mean it’s, it’s easy to love that but it is 10 times easier to love recruiting and taking care of your people and seeing them be successful. I feel like that was when I was like, look, there’s nothing I’m going to do that’s going to be more fulfilling than this. This is awesome.
Speaker 2: (18:43)
So it’s so funny cause it’s like you talk about door knocking is fulfilling or people skill and managing and seeing an inspiring and then our off camera topic or Convo is like so many people aspire to be. Right. How many places have you traveled in the last few years? How many, you know, I want to own real estate. Well every American wants that, right? I want to, you know, be able to drive whatever I want and work when I want. Right. And and have that flexibility yet they’re working at the, as a bank teller, you know what I mean? I had to find it. Right. And it’s like, and then they shun the people like us that are doing that yet. Not Willing to do what we do. You know what I mean? In so many people have this exit strategy, they’re like, well I’m going to do door to door so then I can one day get a normal career that’s more sustainable.
Speaker 2: (19:32)
But what they’re doing is stepping out of a lifestyle that is really like the best ever. I mean income wise, you know, like you said it’s this is the best job and I, and I, I almost want to talk on just for a second, like how do we overcome that mentality of like, well one day when I, you know, move on or I’m going to get a real job one day. Like how have you helped so your guys on a vision to, to do this longer than maybe just a summer intern or you know what I mean? Like you see what I’m getting at?
“they don’t know how hard they should push themselves”
Speaker 3: (20:01)
Well I think the biggest thing for me is why are you doing what you do? So many people want the job because they want a certain lifestyle. And I think when they really sit back and look at it and say, holy cow, I could have this lifestyle 10 years earlier if I just really buckled in and invested in this. And I think that’s the thing that’s interesting is the sky’s the limit in this job. And I really feel like that’s the only thing that messes with people is they don’t know how hard they should push themselves, how far they should go. We’re in a job at simple to say, well, at least I know this is as hard as I have to push and 15 years from now you’re fired. Yeah, I can survive. And Yeah, when I just love pushing, look, you have the opportunity to get whatever want. I heard a quote just recently of a guy that said, take what you want in 10 years and find a way to make it happen in six months and there are only so many vehicles that can, can help you do that. And this is one of them. I mean, it really is.
Speaker 2: (20:59)
And, and I think that’s probably having that mindset is probably what gave you, you know, got you to 150 days for some people have been doing this for 20 years and still have five guys. And it’s like, I think a lot of times people don’t realize that they, they have the gas pedal and the ability to press harder or softer and they’re, they’re playing victim. They don’t realize that they’re controlling whether it happens in six months or 10 years, right. They’re going to, well that’s impossible. Oh, you know, oh, that’s him. I would never be able to do that. And I’m like, what do you mean? Like everybody can go get 150 sales dudes and do 20,000 accounts. Like you’re no different than that. You know what I mean? It’s just you pressed on the gas pedal faster than they did and it’s because you said, I’m committed to what the Rich Dad, poor dad thing. Like how have you used, and this is what’s interesting and this is, this is I own a segue because how have you utilized your obsession with real estate and building a passive income to motivate you and your current job?
Speaker 3: (21:57)
So I think for me, I, after Reading Rich Dad, poor dad and other books, I just, everybody wants to feel safe. Do you know what I mean? And so I really wanted to build that safety net of real estate. I want it to get a passive income that I knew year after year I could live off of. And so early on I did live way more frugally. I mean I didn’t even move into a house till let the last two years after doing the first five years of pest, still living in an apartment and keeping the car that I had and all of those things, I didn’t upgrade and tell my passive income could pay for them because I knew my passive income wasn’t going anywhere. I mean safety. Exactly. And so all of my active income, all of the money that I would make from sales, I would pour into real estate.
Speaker 3: (22:45)
And so then my bare minimums got covered with real estate and now I’m to the point where real estate is paying for those things that I’ve always wanted, that are part of my dream lifestyle that I waited for it because I knew it was set. And the thing that’s so cool about that that I’ve realized is now all that I do. I mean I really feel like now I have that lifestyle, but all that I do with pest control and with sales is for the right reasons because I don’t need the money. I don’t, there’s not more things that I want, but I love helping guys get to that point. It’s more exciting.
Speaker 2: (23:15)
Yeah, it’s boring. It’s like, what am I going to do? Drive by the house and be like, yeah, what’s up Tom? You know? Yeah, you’re rent this month. Like, no, like it, that’s boring. Like what you’re doing is exciting. Like it’s an energizing.
Speaker 3: (23:27)
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don’t realize that a job is boring or what they think they want is boring. And what scares them about this is that it’s commission every day. They’ve got to show up. But it shouldn’t because it’s, it’s what they love, it’s what they’re good at and they don’t have to get into that monotonous every, well, I think this is what’s
Speaker 2: (23:46)
Interesting is it’s this, this paradox paradox and parody or what, I don’t even know how to word conundrum in our internal debate is why do people want to exit strategy in this job? Well, because they’re like, how long can I keep up this lifestyle? I’ve always been on the road and my wife gets getting home at midnight. Or, you know what I mean, recruiting up and I like, I think a lot of people fear like, I dunno how long I can keep this up. Right? So then their fears, they’re like, what am I going to do after this? But they never commit to the job fully to build the passive income to replace to where they do this from choice out of Nis versus necessity. And it’s kind of that difference that you were just trying to, or you were just pointed out was it’s you do this job because you want to and you choose to versus how many sales reps do you have or know or worked with.
Speaker 2: (24:36)
It’s like they’re trying to still live the paycheck to paycheck lifestyle versus like the ownership and like I run a business lifestyle, like you know what I mean? Like see what I’m getting at. Yeah, yeah. Cause like how, like how do you, how do you help somebody have that shift? Like that’s the thing, it’s like you’ve obviously helped a lot of people because you’ve led so many people and they have teams and teams, right? But like what do you do to inspire them to see that shift from you’re not a w two to your business owner and you have the opportunity to accelerate that from 10 years to six months?
Speaker 3: (25:07)
Yeah. Um, I think a lot of it is perspective. Honestly, I feel like we are, I don’t know, we, we think that certain things are bad or we build them up to be bad where I can tell you in all honesty, me and my wife, we missed not being out there this summer, being in a new city, being around our friends, being in that experience. And we still got it when we traveled. But everything has to do with perspective. And I think you can always change your perspective and you can always look at things different where there are so many accountants, lawyers, I mean people I know in their profession that if I went up to him right now and I said, hey, what if you just added an extra five to 10 hours a week of work to your schedule now? But you only had to do it for four months instead of the whole year.
Speaker 3: (25:55)
And you would have a bigger income than you have right now. I think that puts things into perspective. Yeah. I mean, everyone in their dog would say, are you crazy? I would take that in a heartbeat. And then you say, well, okay, it’s knocking doors. And that might change things from their perspective. Yeah. But you put it in that light. Yeah. You put it in that light and it’s like, who doesn’t want to spend eight months enjoying their life, living their lifestyle and having the opportunity to live in a different city every single year is different. You have to move. Yeah. You get to move. Like it’s just the perspective. Totally. And, and I think there’s so many positives to where I really put me in an argument. I think there are a lot of things where you could argue that that four months we’ll be better for you, for your relationship, for all kinds of things in your life than the alternative
Speaker 2: (26:41)
Says, shedding the perspective. It’s going to be hell all summer. You’re never going to see your wife. There’s gonna be the worst experience for in the planet. Versus like, no, like if you’d manage your time right and you know the experiences that you have on Sundays in the morning, you know what I mean? Like totally shifting the perspective. It’s like, yeah, you’re going to attract a lot more people. Yeah. It’s going to have a lot more positivity to that outcome. Like I love that it’s all perspective.
Speaker 3: (27:03)
Well, and with pest control, I mean we worked till half day on Saturday and then we have Sunday off. I can tell you the funniest things that I’ve done in, in my life where you don’t be friends with my wife. Yeah. I mean, where do you got group of like 30 cool dudes in a, in a city going to go like six hours to do something. Just incredible. I mean, those experiences nobody can touch and that’s probably a sacred, yeah.
Speaker 2: (27:27)
Saturday nights it’s like, what’s the Saturday night? It’s different. Every set versus my Saturday nights. It’s like when you’re at dinner and a movie. Yeah. And that’s probably how most Americans live. It’s, it’s like the money, it’s the mundane, well, same weekend as last weekend, I guess. Well where it’s like if forced you to kind of like sacred those six hours or whatever. Cause I went to the bank, so I was telling you this earlier, it’s like this morning, this morning I go to the bank and I see the same banker I see every time. It’s like, what’s up down if you’re watching this. And I don’t even know if we’re Facebook friends, but anyway, it doesn’t even know I have a podcast so it’s okay. Anyway, he comes and he’s like, he’s like, man, like how your seven businesses or whatever. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, that’s crazy.
Speaker 2: (28:11)
But uh, he’s like, yeah, my life’s just kind of Deja Vu. And I was like, oh gosh, I would shoot work, come home, but the kid to bed repeat and that was all over again. Wow. Like that is like, that’s the other perspective. It was kind of like his perspective. And he also was trying to like almost say that that was the good thing. And I was like my perspective that is like, oh my gosh, please, my day is, every day is different. Right? Like, and it was, it, it was interesting talking about perspective cause they’re just kinda like man, but we, we idolize the normal job after getting our butts kicked all day in the summer and no sudden go to that normal job and you’ll come running back like so. True. Well and I think getting our reps to understand that, I think that, I’m sure you’ve helped, like people shift their entire paradigms and now if I told you, hey, go get a normal job and come work for me at the bank, what would you tell me? Yeah. There’s no sense to those looking at the banks. But anyway,
“But with sales, you’ve always got that skill set”
Speaker 3: (29:11)
The thing that’s interesting is I think even looking at that job, even if it did pay what this job paid, I wouldn’t want to do that. Yes. You know what I mean? And so it really is hard to understand why we get the routes that we do because this opportunity is incredible and it really does propel you. That’s the other thing that’s cool is you don’t have to do this for every, if you want you can experiment. But with sales, you’ve always got that skill set and you’ve always got something that you’ve had success with that you can fall back on. I just, there’s no other job like that and if you want to go try a job, go for it. But like you said, they are going to come back. And I’ve seen so many guys, even this year that have taken a couple year break and they’re like, heck man, I was wrong. I don’t have money. And I hated this job way worse. Like they used me, they abused me, I had no value and it, I just think there’s no better place than here. I love this.
Speaker 2: (30:01)
So if you’re a manager and you’re watching this, this is one you got to send to all your recruits that are questioning whether they should sell or not. I mean, seriously though, I think about it like if everybody’s sent this to that future recruit or you know, the guy that’s on the fence, he’s like, I don’t know man. My brother’s telling me I should go work on Seo mark.
Speaker 5: (30:19)
Okay.
Speaker 2: (30:22)
I, I would want to just say go listen to this. And then tell me whether you want it to go do that or not. Like this is the perfect podcast for that. So then now let’s go, let’s, let’s shift gears a little bit and kind of finish up with, I am a, Hey, I just got my backend check or you know, maybe I’m a manager and I’ve made good money and I’ve always wanted to get into real estate. I guess what, like what were some of the first steps you took that were like, it helps you just kind of, it clicked and you did it and it, is it as hard as you thought. Like give us some tips on that.
Speaker 3: (30:53)
I think the biggest issue people have with real estate is just consistently grinding on it. I mean, you’ve got guys that have gotten sell pest control or security or whatever they’re doing and they’re okay going a month without making any money. I mean, that happens in our industry and in certain areas or making very little money, having very little success. And yet guys look into real estate, they’ll look into it for a couple hours and be like, I’ll have sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 2: (31:17)
Yeah. They were like, Oh man, I have to figure out numbers and find a house. And, and I’m like, yeah,
Speaker 5: (31:24)
Yeah, a lot of money. It’s part of the plan. Yeah. That’s just part of it, you know?
Speaker 3: (31:31)
Yeah. And so, I mean get a couple good books. Find what’s your favorite real estate bug on rich dad? Poor Dad is always going in the first but on the four quadrants of, what is it, four quadrants of investing or something like that. But Robert Kiyosaki, the abcs of real estate investing is gold because it’s super simple. Gives you step by step process and yeah, those are, those are big. And you had like a mentor or, I think that’s big as well.
Speaker 2: (31:59)
Do you, is there somebody that kind of coached you through like, Hey, let me help you get your first couple or
Speaker 3: (32:05)
Yeah, so there’s a guy named David Collette. He’s one of my buddies’ dads and he was so helpful, like really helped me see that debt. Wasn’t bad that you can use it, you can leverage. That’s a big thing I’m pretty passionate about. And also just that it’s not risky if you know what you’re dealing. I mean the more educated you are, the less risk there is.
Speaker 2: (32:28)
One is invest in education and find your team that’s you can trust and get it.
Speaker 3: (32:33)
Yeah. Well in a mentor is huge. The thing I’ve realized, so I started that youtube channel and I have so many reach out to me
Speaker 4: (32:40)
that they haven’t done any research. They’re just like, look, I teach me how to invest in real estate. A mentor doesn’t want to help you if you haven’t put in time. So go read at least three to five books and then approach a mentor. Cause you know what you’re talking about. You don’t look like they give you advice. It’s like, okay, make sure your cap rate is between six and nine and you’re like, well that’s a cap. Right? And then he’s like, okay, what’s your cash on cash on these deals? It was like, I don’t even know how to assess the duty. You know what I mean? Where these books are going to give you the basic principles of how to calculate a cap rate. How do I access this? You know what I mean? Like totally. And I think that those conversations are a little bit more effective because you know what you know, instead of you don’t know what you know, you can totally burn someone who could be a killer mentor for you because you don’t value their time.
Speaker 4: (33:21)
And, and here’s the worst thing you can do to go into a mentor. Like, it’s so funny, my dad was a land developer. I mean he built pilgrims landing during mountains big and I go to him and he was like, I’ll point you in the right direction, but I’m not going to do it for you. You go figure it out and then come to me and say, am I doing it right? And I was like, really? And I was like, yeah, can I use your license? It no, go get a real actor. It’s like, what? Get a relative? He’s like, yeah, it’s worth your money to pay a realtor. And I was like, what is interesting? So these little things, but so I went to some other mentors and stuff like that, but, but it was interesting when you say that is a mentor will take you much more serious when you’re really willing to actually do something about it too.
Speaker 4: (34:04)
Because it’s like the second I was like, no, I really hear is my money. Like go like I want to do this versus so many people. How many do they come to you and say real estate sounds sexy. Teach me how to do it and do nothing about it. Have no intention. I have no intention. And I’m always like, don’t even bring it up unless you’re actually going to take action. Well, and the thing that’s so sickening about it is people don’t realize, but real estate is really easy. It’s so easy. I mean, when you know your numbers and it’s so consistent. I mean, yeah, the market dips, but if you’re doing buy and hold, it’s not really going to affect your rent’s, especially if you’re cash flowing well on your properties. So this is guaranteed money every year for the rest of your life and rents only gill up your property only appreciates, I mean with all of that on top of your principal paydown if you’re leveraging and tax benefits and everything else, it’s just crazy to me that these reps will go, they’ll make six figures and the blow it all when that six figures could be a passive $20,000 that they’re making every year for the rest of their life.
Speaker 4: (35:03)
Yeah. So no, it’s, it’s, it’s blowing my mind then. Hopefully we’ve reiterated this principle of don’t be an idiot money. He’s going to be training this training on this a lot deeper at Dordt Orrcon obviously. But um, so I guess another piece of advice I guess you would give to a manager that just made decent money or whatever. Like how much money do you think you’d realistically need to start to start with your first investment property? So it’s funny I made this video because everyone asks that, and I showed people how you could your
Speaker 3: (35:38)
First investment in real estate with $5,000 and that would be living in the property, but with $5,000 you can live completely rent free and be making money. Yeah. So it’s like, it’s like do that part things in perspective. If I do door to door sales and I don’t have an extra $5,000 first off, it’s like you did it wrong.
Speaker 2: (35:58)
Yeah. Reevaluate where you’re at. Yeah.
Speaker 3: (36:01)
First off, just like get trained to do it right. Do the job. I don’t care if you’re selling solar pest alarms, just vacuums. I just hung out some vacuum.
Speaker 2: (36:10)
Sorry. There a dope like Wesley, where were you my whole life anyway. Yeah. Anyway, if you’re watching this man
Speaker 3: (36:19)
Having Glen, he’s gone anyway, so, but I’m sure they have an extra 5,000 bucks and guess what? You’re renting probably over five months you’re gonna spend more than 5,000 bucks in rent that just went to the toilet. So let’s do something about that. You know what I mean? Anyway, sorry. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean really with $5,000 and that’s the crazy thing is then your rent is free. And the whole thing I want people’s mind to do is say, all right, if my rents for free, that’s more money that can go towards buying more real estate. I mean every time you make a purchase and that’s now giving you more passive income, that’s filling your daily needs. I mean your essential oils to where that’s just more money that can go to buy more property. And so you get to the point where you’re in a six figure or a big six figure income coming from completely passive sources coming from real estate. And the thing I love about that is that’s just cash flow. So you have this huge safety net of appreciation in your property of principal pay down of the depreciation that’s going to be saving you on taxes on that money. And so there’s so many advantages and if people would just take advantage of it, a lot of these kids, seriously, we’ve got kids that in three years could have a six figure income in passive income and be set and then they can do sales because they love it, not because they have to.
Speaker 2: (37:36)
And I think if you were to like, I mean I’ve interviewed a lot of good management leadership and it’s like I always ask them, what’s your biggest regret? If you could rewind five years ago and done something different? One of the biggest things is I wouldn’t have blown all my money on a dumb car. I would’ve put more money into realistic, you know what I mean? And I, I look at like, I even say that I’m like, man, I got a lot into real estate and I’m like, I would have been way more aggressive, like way more out of it. Like lived in poor, more poor, been more intricate and creative around it, you know?
Speaker 3: (38:10)
Well, especially with our time frame. I mean, you know, we’re both, we were smart but we’re filling it. Looking back saying holy cow, 2010 2011 2012 I wish I would have lived on Ramen for those years and just bought a ton more real estate bought refi box.
Speaker 2: (38:28)
Have you done that yet? So
Speaker 3: (38:29)
Like let’s take the guy that has maybe four or five properties and he’s like, well free, how do you get to 60 like you know what I mean? There are certain, there
Speaker 2: (38:36)
Are certain limitations on lending and there’s certain limits, you know what I mean? So like, yeah, I guess have you done the whole by let it build equity or improve re, you know, get a new appraisal refi.
Speaker 3: (38:47)
So I have not refight I’ve done one 10 31 exchange, which is just moving the money from one property out and putting it in. So I went from a $200,000 home and the money from that property that I pulled out bought me a fourplex with 30% on the fourplex, which I was bummed. I was like, man, like that’s money. I didn’t even have to tie up, but I had another guy.
Speaker 5: (39:09)
Yeah, but it’s gone.
Speaker 3: (39:10)
$200,000 property, two or $300,000 property. That’s cashflowing way better from rolling that over and I’m just hitting the time now where a lot of those I’ll start to do, because I’d used up a lot of the tax benefits of depreciating a lot of the stuff, quicker salary, your depreciation just on stuff like carpet on the appliances, stuff like that. I’m still doing that. What is it like 28 and a half years on the actual building, but guys
Speaker 2: (39:33)
Spoke to was like, hey, you can accelerate. And I was like, really? And he’s like, yeah, he’s like, think it’d be brought a prop, you know? I Dunno. He’s like, do you really need the text meant? He’s like, you can just keep rolling and keep doing it. And I was like, Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: (39:46)
Well that’s the thing too, that’s cool about real estate is I am never going to pay taxes on a lot of that money because you just keep rolling it into new properties. The government incentivizes you to do that. Speaking of that, speaking of some tax laws here,
“What motivates you now? What’s next? Like what’s your path?”
Speaker 2: (39:59)
So I just got off the phone, Barb Burnett, give her a shout out, she speaking and doing a workshop, but she blew my mind some of the new tax reforms and how it affects that and it positive, but it’s just different than it was even a year ago. And um, so she’s training on it, her workshop on that, because a lot of people go, well, how do I know I’m not going to screw it on taxes and this and that. And there’s so many tricks and tips and things to avoid paying the government and keep your money, you know? Anyway, so I think a lot of people just don’t take the time to listen to a podcast like this and say, oh wait, I can do that. Oh yeah. If they could do it, I can do that, you know? Totally. So I guess fast forward now, I guess, what’s your why? What motivates you now? What’s next? Like what’s your, what’s your path?
Speaker 3: (40:41)
You know, I’ve told a lot of my reps, I’ve got reps that are family. Do you know what I mean? Reps and I care about all of my reps, but there are definitely a lot of rap, polygamous families.
Speaker 5: (40:51)
No, we were in Utah. Just kidding here. We don’t, we’re not polygamous here. No, he’s from Idaho. It’s okay. No, you’re good. I,
Speaker 3: (41:01)
But things just really switched for me where I really want them to have that passive income. Help inspiring them. Yeah, because you think about it with my reps, if I can get them to that point. Can you imagine when you do get to the point that it’s like, all right, we’ve done this 15 years or however long you want to do summer sales and it’s like our, all of our buddies now could literally do whatever we want because money is not a thing. These 45 year old tools. Seriously doing what? Yeah, exactly. Whatever we want because we’ve gone through so much. I mean, the relationships you get in summer sales are absolutely incredible. And so if I could help all of these guys that have been loyal for years to get to that point, I think that would be the best thing ever. And I think that’s like my biggest push right now is anyone that wants it, helping them get there.
Speaker 2: (41:45)
It’s so fun. And, and, and I like admire you for this men like that mission because I’ve worked with some leaders off camera, right? And they say, my whole thing is I want them to spend all their money in the off season so they better for half the come back next year. Isn’t that such an opposite to that crazy. Have you heard that before? That
Speaker 3: (42:07)
Totally. And I think that’s what’s so cool about investing in passive income is I don’t think all those guys are bad guys, but I think they’re spending their money where they’re saying, I got to get these guys back so I can support my lifestyle. And if you’re not doing things to support your lifestyle, then you’re set. And if you can help all your guys to do the same thing. I mean, the only thing better than being with all your buddies and summer sales is being with all your buddies in or out of summer sales because money is not a thing because you’ve helped hook them up with passengers.
Speaker 2: (42:35)
It’s not the question of, Hey, can you come hang out this weekend down in wherever I don’t have gas money. It’s more like, yeah, I’ll hop on a plane of, I’ll be that. Yeah, exactly. And it’s not a question of like, can I afford that? And it’s so funny. Speaking of that, there was just a recent post if you’re listening to their, so watching this this morning. All right guys, I’m going to talk about, I’m, I bring this up on podcast. Sorry, I don’t even know who you were, but Hashtag you’re awesome. He’s like, this whole door to door con thing’s a scam. Why would I spend I, you know, it’s way overpriced. I couldn’t ever afford that anyway, you know, even like called himself out and he was like, well I don’t have $200 to go throw around and spend it, this conference or whatever. And I was like, wow.
Speaker 2: (43:19)
Like that is what door to or can create is, I don’t want to blink it $200 you know what Amy and I, it’s like, it’s interesting that if we can take this job serious and I’m not trying to rag on anybody, I’m just trying to say like if somebody said, hey man, like we’re doing this dope thing in Hawaii in a week. It’s like I don’t feel bad buying the last minute week, take it. You know, it’s like a, it’s in the account. Like I got this. And I think that that’s inspiring and it’s like I want other people to grab onto that mentality and it’s don’t be dumb with your money. It’s, you are so smart with your money that you didn’t, you can be done with your money out of choice instead of out of like uneducated, dumb, just you’re just totally, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: (44:02)
Cool. And I think with a conference like this, let’s say it was for $1,000 and you were only selling it for a hundred or it was, you were selling it for a thousand it was only worth 100 when they went there. That’s still a much better investment than any of the other crap that a lot of these sales guys are buying. Exactly. And so it’s like, look, even if you get one thing out of it that’s putting you further along, that’s putting you ahead, that’s setting you up. And I think the guys need to start investing in things like real estate and bettering themselves and putting themselves around good people. Because even if you grab onto someone, let’s say they go to your conference and they don’t get a single thing, they’re going to meet someone that’s going to make them better. And I just think it’s garbage because anything like that, I mean, I went to a conference last week for real estate and it blew my mind and I went in really arrogant. I mean, I thought nobody else my age is going to have the properties I’m having and Yada, Yada, Yada. And my mind was blown at all the different things that people are doing. And I think when you adopt that mindset, that’s when you’re going to hit. What do you want to be?
Speaker 2: (45:01)
No, I think, yeah, I think it’s, it’s, it’s so funny because people think that they already know everything. It’s, it’s, I literally sat down yesterday, I was demoing did it a university for this guy who runs this alarm company and never really heard of him. Never met him. And I was like, where the heck is his name is Brett. Um, anyway, he, he does 450 accounts over a year. Like, who the hell are you? He said, but this is what, it was impactful. He was like, you know what, I’m, I am more excited about the university. I’m more excited about Dora kind that I think I can get even all my guys about it. And I was like, that’s so inspiring because you’ve sold more than anybody that’s trained on the university yet he’s still hungry enough to say I’m excited to get this. And it was it w it was really cool and I was like, well, let’s get you on film. You know what I mean? But it did. I was like, okay, no, but I, I, but, but I get his point. It’s that curious. It’s the curiosity that I think a lot of, uh, the lower performers lap and that’s what, that’s the impediment to up level.
Speaker 3: (46:01)
Totally. Well, and I think also, and this is the thing you’re trying to change in the industry, but there is a, it’s easy to get in a selfish mindset where I really believe even in summer sales, even though we don’t feel that way, when you have a give mentality, you’re going to be more successful. And a lot of that comes to showing up, putting yourself out there, trying to share what you’ve done that’s successful and hoping that other people are willing to do the same. And if you’re giving, they will too.
Speaker 2: (46:27)
Well Dude, I have just appreciate your time. Awesome. More fun off camera you guys. We just bonded on a really powerful, uh, not like in a weird way. Um, I know Chandler is an awesome dude. If you guys want to get to know him, Adam, him or whatever, and then he’ll be at the event and I’m excited to continue this relationship, but know we just met today. This was fun. It’ll be off. So like brothers, I guess what the same tribe we are brothers. So I always asked the last question, you know, just in a couple words, if you had to give one piece of advice to the entire industry, what would it be? Um,
Speaker 3: (47:02)
I think just back, and this is kind of what I’ve been pitching lately. Um, but just give, give me your reps, put them first. Put other people first because you’re never going to find someone who’s willing to give that. They’re not getting it back. And I just think that’s a mindset with everything. Whatever you’re in, whether it’s cells or any other job, or your relationships or anything else, the more you give, the more you’re going to get back. So I’d do it for the right reasons because it makes you happier too. I mean, you won’t find someone who’s giving that’s not stoked on life. Love it. Okay. You guys heard it first
