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Sam Taggart 00:22
Alright everybody, this is Sam Taggart and I’m with David Kozowski. I’m gonna I’m gonna

David Kozowski 00:27
Please call me Koz. Everyone calls me Koz

Sam Taggart 00:29
I am like the worst. Anyway, he is adopted, and he definitely doesn’t look like Koz. Cool.

David Kozowski 00:35
That is why he asked me he said, how you pronounce your name like, I don’t know how to ask someone else. I was adopted. I still had till this day. I don’t know if it’s Kozlovsky or Kozlowski. Kozlowski.

Sam Taggart 00:45
Anyway, so he is the host of Like the Fight podcast. And so if you haven’t heard of that podcast, it’s really well known in the parenting world. So he’s a marriage and family therapist, and he helps teens with suicide with, you know, anxiety, depression, any problems that a family’s going to go through. And usually that trickles into the parents as well, obviously, some of the stuff that they deal with. And anyway, I thought this would be a really exciting podcast. And I was looking forward to this because I’ve listened to your podcast for probably six months now. And I don’t listen to a lot of podcasts. But my wife is always like, hey, check this one out, and she’ll send me an episode like that was actually really good. What I love about David is he’s raw, like he says it how it is. It is 2020, he just doesn’t sugarcoat you know, where a lot of counselors and marriage therapist, they’re, like, you know, the nerd that studied, you know, psychology in college, and then graduates and gets this 40,000 a year thing where you, you know, have a different track record of sales, marketing, football, college athlete, you know, and then fell into this and have made this a profession, which I think is really relevant and potent for our audience. So I look, I look forward to this jam. So appreciate you being on the show. I appreciate thanks for having me, Sam. So tell us I mean, I can’t Yeah, I kind of want it in a nutshell. And then we’ll dive into like, really the parenting techniques and balance between husband wife, like, we’re gonna dive into like, personal life and let’s get real on this. But how did you? When did it what point did you decide I’m going to get into counseling because you’re in sales, you’re in football, sports, it’s not like, I’m sure you as a kid were like, I’m gonna be a counselor like, No, I’m sure there was like a transition point where I was thinking our family needs accounts.

David Kozowski 02:27
Not that I do on. Yeah, so you said earlier, I fell into counseling. That’s basically what happened almost literally. So you mentioned I’m, I was a college athlete. So I’m from Carlsbad, California, San Diego, and I got a football scholarship to play at the EU. And when I was at the EU, I had a lot of problems like behavioral problems, a lot of issues just I was I was just a punk kid. And unfortunately, I had a bunch of concussions, and I was in a coma after a snowboarding accident, right at Snowbird, and I was lifeline of the university to hospital. And in that same season, I tore my liver, big hole in my liver and almost died on the field. So this is all within like four months of each other. So fast forward to right after the concussions, everything happened. I became really suicidal, I was going through a breakup with my fiance, it was not going well. And one thing led to another I had a very serious suicide attempt. And fortunately, my neighbor heard me hit the ground. And I don’t know what I hit, but apparently made a lot of noise. And also fortunately lived down the street from the university to hospital. And so one thing led to another I come to and I’m in the hospital, and there’s my coach Ron McBride at the time, and standing over me like four o’clock in the morning. He didn’t know it was going on the hospital couldn’t really tell him what was going on. Because all that stuff’s confidential, and he just knew that they’d put my stomach and it was pretty intense thing that happened. And I remember just looking at him with just such shame and embarrassment, I Mike because my career was done at this point, because they told me I could never play football again. Because my concussions I’d had concussions problems ever since I was two years old. And really bad can cut just random head traumas. And you get them again and they continue. But I developed a speech impediment I had all these issues and I’m looking at my coach knew my career’s over and I’m like, why are you wasting your time coming to see me? I’m just I’m a guy. That could have been something but I’m a husband now. And remember, you know, he’s he like his words, like what was wrong with you? Cause like, that’s how he is. And then when it was said and done, he realized what was wrong with me hug me. And at that particular time, I wasn’t sure. Basically, I was surprised to be alive. I thought I was going to be dead. And so when I woke up, I didn’t know like, do I need to try again, but when I saw him and he started talking me, but I’ll never forget what he said. He goes, I don’t know what’s going on. But just know I love you man. And he gave me a big hug. And I just broke down started crying. And he walked away and he was there for a while but I remember thinking to myself, okay, I’m not going to try this again. Just something clicked like him being there. him saying at that point. ticular moment clicked in. And it was at that point where I started turn my life around, and I will as long turn, like turn the ship around the ship. And, but I started going to counseling. So in counseling, I’m talking to this counselor at the EU and they had to send me like the top guide to you because apparently all the other ones couldn’t handle my stuff and, and he was just so cool. And I remember thinking on so you just listen to people, and they tell you all stuff you ask them questions thing that we’d never think about is like, yeah, and then they just feel happier. Like, yeah, I’m like, that’s the dopest shot ever. I didn’t even know that was a thing. And so at that moment, it got in my head, like, maybe I might want to do this. But the reality was, I was graduating college, I wanted to make money. I wanted to be in marketing sales business, like my older brothers who played in the NFL, they’d made lots of money after the NFL. So I’m like, I want to be like that. And it just kept on I was doing one sales job after another. We talked before the podcast mean, fax and copier sales, interlocking pavers, I’d never known anything about construction, you know, but I’m like, Hey, I could sell I could, I’m like, I knew I could sell stuff to people and I sold gym memberships, whatever it was. But this thing in the back of my head. It just told me there’s something better out there. And no matter how much money I could or couldn’t make, I wasn’t motivated by the money because I knew there was people that were struggling like me. And they weren’t going to talk to anyone. Like I wasn’t going to talk to anyone. Finally, I ran into one of my buddies, Joe Welch, a dude from the ghetto in San Diego, play football me took me under his wings to college, go to grad school, become a counselor. One thing led to another that happen. And then 21 years later, I’m sitting here right now, like I had no intention to be a counselor. To this day, my friends like, wait, you help people with their feelings? And but don’t they know you have more issues? Like Okay, that’s enough, man. Well, it takes one to know one, right? So now that’s, that’s how I got here. Long, long story kind of short.

Sam Taggart 06:45
No, that’s awesome. And I think that, you know, those that are listening to this, I think I invite them right now to kind of say, let’s open up and get real. Because often times, I think the biggest problem is so many people are chasing happiness, but they don’t really know where to find it. They don’t feel fulfilled, they they lose themselves in this Chase, especially in our industry. And you know, it sounds like you’ve helped a lot of people on that journey. And that’s really why I wanted to have you on the show. So you said something offline that hit me, which was, you know, the hardest sale is happiness. Talk to me on that. What does that even mean?

David Kozowski 07:25
Well, when I say I’ve sold a lot of things, some things were not legal. And I found out that it’s a lot easier to sell weed and drugs than it is to sell happiness. And a BA and I joke around that. But when I talked to parents stuff now there, they’ll always tell me like, how come you’re giving my kid? How come you’re telling me to give my kid their cell phone back before they’ve deserved it? How come you’re telling me to put my own skin in the game when I would prefer just my kid perform do really well, and then I’ll reward them. And I tell them why learning my drugs on days, the first one’s always free. He always got to hook someone up first to let them know that you’re not all about it just being your benefit. You know, it’s just about your wants your candles, right? Like the things that you want need, that you’re willing to go first. And so I took that mindset mentality because it did work and so on we back in the day. And I took that mindset mentality when I was working with people’s like, I’ve got to be willing to put something out there to them. Because when I was in college, they scared the crap out of you, they told you in graduate school, be personable, but don’t share your own personal life with people because you could get caught up with, you know, dual relationship or now you become their friend and you can’t be their friend, you have to be the professional and they’re the client. But when I went through counseling for a lot of years, I was fortunate enough to have a couple counselors that they were just the person I was talking to, I totally forgot their accounts, or they’re just a regular person. They shared all their personal stuff with me. So I’m like, I want to be like that person. And so I realized that if I’m expecting someone to be vulnerable and open with me, someone’s got to go first. So people, it’s very common thing, thanks to Bernie Brown, a lot of people they talk about vulnerability, but there’s lots of different types of vulnerability. You know, there’s victim vulnerability as I call it, there’s a certain vulnerability the victim vulnerability was like nobody loves me. Or that’s the person says, I’m sorry, hurt your feelings, but you’ve hurt my feelings before too. It’s a way to segue what’s going on here your there’s a motive here. And so I found I’m like, man, if I want these kids who don’t even want to come talk to me, and even couples because I’m a family therapist, they’ll come and see me there’s always at least one of them that didn’t want to be there. Well first of all, no one wants to be going to counseling but one was like we’re gonna do it the other ones like Oh, hell no, I’m not gonna do this. But they have to write because they pressure and I just started to see this whole entire thing that happiness was something that everyone wanted but they saw there’s so many hoops to jump through. They thought they tried everything. They thought like I tried it, I’m sure you see this in sales a lot. People you tell them well, how come your numbers look? Well, I’ve done this. I’ve done that. You give them suggestions. No, I’ve done that. And they just shoot down every single idea and the resistance is so strongly like, you may want to be successful in sales, but you’re not willing to make the sacrifice to be successful in sales, because it’s just giving up something good for something better. And with parents and couples, sometimes it’s giving up something good, which is being right for something better to allow other people to weigh in on the conversation, to let them have a voice and influence you first. So that’s why I tell people all the time I have all the things I’ve sold, selling happiness in couples and relationships is really hard. It’s even happy. It’s even harder in couples, because kids, I’ve got power over their parents, the parents who come over pissed off their kid. And I do happen to no joke is probably part of the reason why Sam on me on here, a lot of dads I work with are in the sales industry. These are high stress, people that are burning the candle at both ends anyways. So they don’t have time to come home and deal with those kind of problems. Because they’ve maxed out on their Yeah, we’re tapped out, they’re tapped out. So they come home, it just needs to be done. And then you can imagine coming home and a husband telling his wife, well, how come you didn’t clean the house happy to do this? How come things are out of order? And then the mom look at the husband and the husband’s like, Oh, crap, that is probably wrong. And then the mom flips out of legs. And then it comes to me go to how do I get out this way? You shouldn’t have said that man,

Sam Taggart 11:08
as a stupid thing to say. You can anybody listen to this? If you’re married? You can relate to that right? There you go. Yeah,

David Kozowski 11:15
you can relate to it’s just one of those things where we’re so stressed out in our jobs, we come home, we talk to our kids in our family, the exact opposite the way we talk to our customers.

Sam Taggart 11:25
Oh, my wife is like if you treated me half as good as you treat your clients. Right? I would be happy.

David Kozowski 11:30
And I’d like it’s a valid point. Because you put so much emphasis on how do we please the customers how we please customers not realizing with our family, we’re in customer service also. Yeah. And so we’ll talk more about the family business model. But that basically kind of sums up the whole entire sale. You know, happiness is a tough sell. Because it’s a long game. It’s a really, really long strategic game that it’s not a young man’s game. Now young men are really after the thrill of the hunt the money as you said earlier, and and so for us to kind of switch from being that super assertive guy that’s really willing to do whatever it takes to make the money. But then also realize that we can be assertive Li vulnerable. So my definition for assertive vulnerability and I talked about this on my podcast a lot is a bold expression of your most genuine thoughts, feelings and opinions. And so when you go to apologize to someone with a victim, vulnerable apology, like dad coming on, like we said, sales guy comes home flips out on his kids, what the hell’s going on? Why did you do this? Why’d you do that? just totally interrogate them? You know, that would that would be you know, he may think the dad may say, I’m being vulnerable, because I said, like, how can you keep on doing this? Don’t you realize how hard this is for me to see you struggling and the dad makes it about his hurt and pain. A sort of vulnerability is really saying, I don’t know if you meant to do this personal. I really don’t think you did. You’re obviously going through your own struggles. Just for me personally, it makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong as a parent, a sort of vulnerabilities, just a different twist. You’re just being genuine. You’re being bold, but it’s about your thoughts, your feelings. You’re not trampling over someone else’s feelings. You’re not being victim vulnerable. We’re making them feel bad for having a hard day because they went through struggles. And this is a leadership quality that you see a lot of great leaders, you know, I see the book on the shelf with their Extreme Ownership. That’s basically what Jocko saying in his book, it’s, he says, in a very masculine way, and I love that book. But that’s what is Extreme Ownership is assertive vulnerability. But as a leader, you have to go first, if you don’t go first, and you don’t model that for your wife and your kids. And you’re mad at them, because they’re getting mad at you and yell at you. You were the one that taught them that.

Sam Taggart 13:38
Yeah, I think it’s interesting you say that, because what goes through my mind is, I’m almost creating a category of vulnerability called the chameleon vulnerability, where I think salesmen, they know how to play chameleon to adapt to whatever their customer needs, and they can put on that mask of like, I’ll just be a chameleon and show up how you need me to show up right in these 30 minutes. So that you buy, right. And the problem is, is we condition ourselves, where we don’t learn to speak our own opinion and truth. We want to speak whatever the customer or person we’re trying to sell or persuade, is needing. And so I found in my personal life, and I’m just speaking for me, but I struggle to speak my opinion, my truth and my like, I’m a people pleaser, right? I’m all about Okay, I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings, or whatever you happy and want to be happy. I’m every everything needs to be go lucky. And so I always feel like if I have to speak my truth, or if I have to be bold and assertive, and say some hard things and crucial conversation, especially with my wife, I just shut down. I’m like, I will just shut up and let you keep ranting and I will like, you know what I mean? I just I literally freeze. And I think that that is because of I struggle with being bold and assertive and expressing my truth. Yeah,

David Kozowski 14:53
that’s a good point. I’m glad you brought that up. Because from my experience to sit across from a lot of guys and women too, because obviously There’s a lot of women in sales too. Yeah, I got 100 resumes right now that they’re slaying in their profession at sales. And they know the mindset of what you just talked about, like being vulnerable at those moments to kind of make people feel safe and secure. Because if you can do that, genuinely, sincerely, you’re gonna have customers for life, oh, they’re good. They want people you can buy from anyone, but you’re gonna buy from the person, you have a good relationship. 100, right. And so these people, they do that at work, and they come home, and they forget that if that investment is valuable in your career, why would you be doing the same thing with your wife and your kids, or your husband or your kids or even your family members and friends. And so it’s not hard for me to get people to take their business and sales mentality to their wife and their kids and their family. The hard part is for them to break the habits they developed for so many years of not doing that, yes, the habits, the habits of the really difficult ones. Because a lot of us we don’t have power in that that relationship with our customers least not the power we’d like. And so when we come home, we feel like, okay, I didn’t have power all day long. People complain to me about something happened wasn’t my fault. So now I’m going to give that to my kids, because it was unfair for me to get that at work. So I don’t I’m not gonna I’m not willing to take that at home. Not knowing that. The way we motivate people, the way we inspire people, is to show them that we can be a trusted person, just like we’re showing our customers, we can be a trusting person. Yeah. So if your kids know that you have a reason to flip out, your wife knows you have reason flip out and you don’t flip out, you condition yourself to take a deep breath, maybe take a timeout, there’s a lot of tools we can talk about. But you figure out a way to stay in the pocket, not freak out. And for all you football players out there use this reference was guys. A guy drops back in the pocket to throw a ball. unexperienced quarterbacks, they see the rush coming and they take off run right into the oncoming Blitz. The guys who are really experienced the Tom Brady’s those guys, they’ll sit there in the pocket, bullets are flying all around them. But they take a breath and they don’t panic. It’s a very similar mentality. When we come home from work, I work with a lot of first responders, these guys are watching kids die, horrible things happen. And their divorce rate, their addiction rate in their suicide rate is off the chart, because they can’t switch over from being the lifesaver in these categories. To now who’s going to support me, it’s really difficult as a father as a parent, or just as an adult to be able to influence so many people while at the same time getting your needs met. Yeah, I listened some of your episodes and your mindfulness, the meditation, I’m so glad that people in high stress jobs are seeing that if you don’t do that, you’re basically firing yourself. Yeah, you’re making sure you will not be successful in your career. If you don’t put some of your own personal wants and needs on that priority list where you’re like, I have to go work out even though I don’t want to. It has to become that. Like if I don’t go work out. I know, I’ll be stressed throughout the day. Well, if I don’t put the time in with my kids and my wife at night, well, then I’m going to take that to work. And now my clients got to deal with it. We’re bad. We’re burning the candle both ends when that family stress, it comes with us to work. So we keep together for work. And then we’re tapped out we go back. We don’t have family. We’re unloading but we don’t have time to reload before we go home.

Sam Taggart 18:07
Yeah. So I guess let’s talk like, because that is a common thing in our industry. Right? It’s, you know, your husband and your wife, your there’s this like balance game. Right? And or significant other whatever. A girlfriend partner? Yeah, brands. Yeah. And and so you’re, you know, you come home exhausted, and you almost are tapped out which in reality, the stress created in the relationship is just creating more exhaustion in the work, like you just said. So I guess, do you have any good hacks or tools that we could implement to say, hey, try this before going home or try this at home? That’s going to help create a better system? And you know, you’d mentioned kind of this parenting contract or plan or whatever, I kind of want to jam into some some hacks or different tools that we could try, you know, yeah, well, I’ll

David Kozowski 18:53
give you a hack for anyone in intimate relationship first. And then I’ll talk more about the parent teen partnership, it’s really for parents and all their kids. So one hack I’ll throw out there, if you want to check out the podcast, we’ll talk about that later, I give a lot more. But one that’s really very helpful for men and women as well, with their intimate partners is that I call this an hour later. So I labeled every single tool so it’s easy to remember how an hour later works is First off, people out there listening. You can’t implement these strategies and skills during or right after an argument.

Sam Taggart 19:27
Yeah. Last night, I got an argument, Katie. I’m literally like, tools are going through my head, right. I was like, I’ve been through counseling and I still go to counseling.

David Kozowski 19:36
Tomorrow. You guys want to really eff up your marriage, try to use the tools you read in books and all these things. You’re trying to be a better dad and stuff like that, right after you just pissed off your wife, your significant other and you’re okay, here’s what we’re gonna do. You were the last person I’m like,

Sam Taggart 19:49
take some breaths. And she’s like, I don’t even know the breath right now. I’m like, she’s like hearing my Tony Robbins. Talking to me. Yeah, I’m like, What do I do?

David Kozowski 20:00
stuck. So trying to be someone’s coach someone’s therapist that you have no influence over at the moment. Don’t even try.

Sam Taggart 20:06
Yeah, I definitely fell. Or you

David Kozowski 20:07
could try it. Or as I like to say, job security for me. All you got to keep screwing up your marriages, families, I’m in business, right. So that’s a joke. I don’t want you to script for families and marriages, but I call it an hour later. And here’s how narrow later works. You always in every tool that you have, you have to start off by putting your own skin on the table, hence, you got to go first, right? So you talk to your significant other, you pull them aside, like a day later, whatever, who listen, heard this crazy idea on this podcast, but it really made a lot of sense, or however you want to pitch it to them. They say, here’s what’s going on. I have criticized you, I’ve ridiculed you about you know, getting that mad at me whatever it may be. But I realized that when I come home from work, I’m really stressed out. And I tell you, I’m really stressed out. But what I’m really trying to tell you is that I don’t have the mental emotional wherewithal and capacity to take one more thing. But I make it sound like it’s personal towards you. Because our body language, our facial expressions are accountants and disposition if it does not match our words, people are buying our words, that’s like going to customer service. And they give you bad news that they can’t give your money back in the person. Sorry, sir, can help you want to punch this face? Because they’re not sorry. They know, they’re not feeling bad for you. It’s very condescending. So what you do is you wait for the time and you go to them and say, Listen, I have an idea. From now on. When I come home, let’s do this thing called an hour later. Here’s how it works. Before I come home, if there’s a chance of having a stressful day, I’m going to send you a text. Hey, listen, I’m at a really stressful day. I’m up against it. A lot of pressure in this that I want to hear about your day, I want to know all the things I need to do. We can talk about it right when we get home, or we can talk about it later. Now when you’re saying this to your to your partner, you’re actually telling them the scenario. Now, texting on the way home is one way to do it. Everyone loves choices in sales. The option close you got to give the option close right so this is to the guys come on. Man. You guys don’t make this up. The sales one on one, right? By the way, sales. You guys borrow everything from psychology, by the way,

Sam Taggart 22:10
oh, 100% we borrow things from psychological research. You’re hacking borrowing the coat the counseling books, and we’re turning it into words because human beings Yeah, that’s

David Kozowski 22:21
what motivates people. So you’re telling your intimate partner, whatever you’re saying, I know what motivates you, you want to be heard. You want to be taken serious and being taken serious means I need to cut out time and energy to give you but because in the past, I’ve learned and this is what I was tell guys to say. Use your failures to validate why you should try to say, every time I come home, I get mad at pissed off and I’m telling you to change things. But I realize I should just change it. So here’s what I change. When I come home, you can either say do you want to talk now or later if you think I’m in a bad mood because sometimes as a sales working professional, you may not know that you’re in a bad mood. Yes. Everyone else is walking on eggshells. Rowdy I feel it. My favorite one is one of the dads tell the kids don’t you know I love you. Because they look intimidating. And as men especially we don’t know how big and overbearing we look to our wives and kids. It is very intimidating for them. Our scowls and our look. So we say now or later, I’m either going to text you or call you and say, Can we talk now or later? Then if you come home and your partner sees that you’re off, they can say do you want to talk now or later? If you choose later, then you got to close them with when you have to choose a moment. So if you choose later so your wife let’s say your husband he comes happen to me this morning. Okay, well

Sam Taggart 23:39
then we’re talking scenario. We’re not talking any tracking real scenario. Last night fight. I’m like Fs saying I’m going to sleep like out here’s what you should have done if I hadn’t little earpiece. I know I was like, I need a minute black. I’m

David Kozowski 23:53
pretend I’m Sam Sam’s handler right now. So you walk in the door, you say, Hey, you know, let’s do this now or later things like I’ve had a bad day. Let’s do this. I can talk to you about it right now. If that if you need me right now. Because here’s the thing, sometimes they need you right then and you’re gonna have to you have to step up. She

Sam Taggart 24:10
said that this morning? When do I get what I see a

David Kozowski 24:14
lot of guys, little little robot. A lot of guys tell me but if I say it once, then they’re going to take control every time I said, No, no, no, you’re mistaken. People value if someone gives their time and attention. They don’t want to mess that up. They know if they get your time and attention. That was a serious deal. So it’s like a good relationship. You’re not going to dismiss and ghost your closest friend is you know, like, hey, that person does a lot for me. So Sam, you come home, you tell us and now or later, you say I could talk about it. Now if you really need me now. I’ll drink a bang, whatever you need me to do. And I’ll just I’ll get all excited. Wherever I’ll be here. I got your back. But for me right now, I’d prefer if we talked about it later. Let’s say she goes you know, I’ll give you a pass. Let’s talk about it later. It has to be determined at that moment when the later I

Sam Taggart 24:56
said six pin. Here’s the problem. So I was like hey, tonight At 6pm I’m committed. Let’s do it. This is fun because it’s like today’s Yeah. hot press hot off the press. And I’m okay with just being real. Like if you don’t have problems with your marriage, like good job, like call me and I want to figure you anyway, sorry, is full of crap. Yeah, exactly. You’re just not being honest. So then I’m like, but she says this, and this is where maybe I messed up. Tell me if I’m wrong. So definitely messed up. Go ahead. Yeah. She’s like, well, how come you always get what you want? Meaning? I’m always getting the later. She’s like, but I need you right now. And I’m like, if I got a call in 15 minutes, my wife Yeah, I’ve got he’s up on the board. He’s waiting right now. Yes. And I’m like, I got a call in 15 minutes. I had a prep for this. And I literally am not, I don’t have the bandwidth in my mind to go direct to a DTR. To back to this call that I need to get on. You know, there’s a short amount of time. So I was like, please, six o’clock. She’s like, then she was all pissed. Because I’m like, I didn’t take the now option when she was pushing and saying, but I need you. You didn’t give it to me last night. So I need any closure. I need this.

David Kozowski 26:07
Let me press pause for saying here’s something you not understand the particular moment. Do you think in your entrepreneurial career your wife has ever heard you change appointment times change phone calls and meaning times because another urgent situation and work came up? And you had to pry out reprioritize?

Sam Taggart 26:23
dun dun dun all the time. We

David Kozowski 26:24
all do. That’s that’s entrepreneurship one on one, you have to constantly weighing out what is the biggest dragon slayer? What’s a party and it could shift I mean, in my profession, I did it today. I’m supposed to meet someone in like 45 minutes I’m meeting with someone currently that suicidal, I can’t leave that person yet. So I’m gonna call you the person I know you’re on your way over here. But I have to cancel. But because I’ve done the same thing for them. They go go ahead do your thing. Okay. This is where you get to build the connection currency with your wife in your bank account with her you don’t have enough connection currency in those moments you’re going to show up. So if you were to told her at that, like fast forward, if you were to text her or call her on the way home say, Hey, listen, I don’t know what’s going on when I get home. But I got all this stuff going on. I just one let you know, I got to jump on a phone call. So if you need my help, whatever. And then she said, Hey, listen, we really need you right now. Because this is happening. This is your moment. This is super tilde. Do you guys have this in so much more. Because anyone that happens to listen this and knows my wife, I married an alpha female. She is very loving, caring everyone else with me does not cut me any slack. For years, I thought if I would just bend to her will and give her what she wants to trample over me because I got mommy issues. Like I said, I was adopted. Okay, babe, whatever you want, right? And I would just I would always lose not always be submitting to her will. I didn’t realize that if I just put in that time, making sure that if she chosen now I gave her the now I would shut up i’d vacuum I do whatever had to do. Then she started to realize, Matt, that was not easy for him. She wanted to see that I was willing to struggle and suffer so that she could have a little bit of benefit or some relief at time. And then now do all that yours I put into it. Now. She’s like, hey, you’re on a phone call, go and take that. And my assistant that works on me. He’s like, wow, your wife changed the past five years. I’m like, I know, right? He was how did it change I said, because I put her first I had to go first. If I didn’t model for thinking about it. In the streets, people say I respect that person, they respect me, while I respect that person, they respect me who’s gonna who’s gonna go first, someone’s got to go first. So the ideal thing is to call ahead, text ahead and give that but let’s say you forgot about that you get home. The willingness to go all in with someone. And this is a hack you guys, it doesn’t always happen. But if you were to told her, you know what, you’re more important. I’m going to do this right now. Let me call let me make some change and you just start going in, there’s a good 5050 chance that she would have said, don’t do that. It’s like

Sam Taggart 28:49
just extend it

David Kozowski 28:51
meaning lady didn’t know that you’re willing to talk she care about back that’s all because when my wife the same thing, I mean, I we have good reasons. When there’s money at stake, it may look like we’re just money hungry to our intimate partners. But what they don’t realize is that money puts money on other people’s accounts and food on their tables. There’s a lot of people that are depending upon these things go through so we feel that stress and pressure, you know, their stress and pressure is that their family does not fall apart. And that is always got to Trump with everything that just happened with Coby and all stuff I mean, we’re talking about this you know, two days after happen every radio station la cuz I follow the radio stations la just like the hip hop better there. Yeah. Everyone is talking about if this is my family, everyone’s re like reevaluating their own relationships right now. And it’s horrible at a tragedy has to do that to make us think this. But if we look at it, life is only as good as our relationships. And that goes for sales that goes for family that goes for everything. In fact, I’ve always argued that our life revolves around relationships. I googled the word relationships about 20 years ago. Well, that was before Google, I

29:53
think I looked it up.

David Kozowski 29:54
Here’s what I found out. It didn’t mean what I thought it meant. By the way, there’s a lot of words that mean Things that I didn’t know that they meant, like, hey, I’ve been using it wrong for years. So here’s what the word relationship means I found this definition it says, it says a connection between two or more people, places, objects or things, it is the essence of all connection. So by definition, you have a relationship with your past, your present with your future, you have a relationship with what you thought this quarter sales was going to be versus what it actually is, you have a relationship with your wife’s hopes and dreams, not just your wife, you have a relationship with so many different things, our clothes, if we’re if our if our shirt rips, we return it, we wouldn’t want that anymore. Yeah, so if we see all these moving parts are different various relationships, then we can look at it like in your situation, look at your wife, your wife has a relationship with your relationship with your relationships at work. Um, at that moment, if you say, you know, I

Sam Taggart 30:54
always slow that down, I caught it. But if you’re listening to this pause, your wife has a relationship with your relationships with the relationships at work. Absolutely.

David Kozowski 31:03
And it’s not a run on sentence, it’s actually you actually go through the rabbit holes. Because think about it, she sees you

Sam Taggart 31:11
and how you associate with those and

David Kozowski 31:12
how you associate with those at work. Then she sees those work relationships, how they manifest with other work relationships. So you’re constantly think about the first level of connections, your relationships, then the consumer, your thing about your sales team, then the customers. And it goes layers and layers and layers.

Sam Taggart 31:27
My wife has expressed this and I’m like, Whoa, you’re thinking way into this. But it makes sense. Like, it makes sense how you’re saying it this way. And my wife hates she’s pregnant, listen to this anyway. But she hates me. And she’s like, Sam, when somebody else tells you, you listen, when I tell you, she’s like, I’ve been telling you this stuff for you. And

David Kozowski 31:49
your family with your kids. That’s why sometimes we can’t coach or help teach our kids with certain things. Yeah, our influences really ran that wells dry. We don’t have that type of influence. But to put time and effort into that, just like what we’re talking about right now. So going back to an hour later, that would basically how it works. If she came home, if you came home, she said, Now you go, right, I’m all in, boom, boom, start shutting down. If she allowed you to make those changes, and you came back, you’re investing so much in it. The next day, I guarantee you, she’ll be like, I need to repay that human beings have this universal law. It’s like if someone listens, you put your thoughts and feelings and opinions in a higher priority to them. Even if they say things afterwards that you don’t want to hear. You just know you have to give them that attention. Yeah, there’s not a lot of people do that. For us. Not a lot of people are willing to hear us out without having an agenda. You know, if you’re talking to someone, they’re looking at their phone all the time, you ain’t gonna get that sale. Like if you’re just like, distracted, you’re gonna lose the person right in front of you. It’s no different with our wife and our kids, and we can lock in with them, then they know that we’re modeling for them the same thing we want them to do for us. Now as a sales guy, we go and try to influence our kids after we’ve allowed them to do an hour later with us because you can do with your kids are different types of techniques. We allow them to go first, then what’s our turn to talk? They go? Why don’t like we saying, Hey, listen, I know you don’t. But I let you talk for a while. I heard you out. I would just like a moment. Alright, yeah, that’s fair. It’s just like, it’s just this. Yeah, it’s this weird lala land, we

Sam Taggart 33:12
just all kind of tan All right, just like the ethic.

David Kozowski 33:18
I’ve heard, I’ve heard people out that I’m like, I’m not buying with the show. And I don’t want to know what they have to say. But they were respectful. They’re civil in their plan. I gotta give them their due. I gotta give them their due.

Sam Taggart 33:26
Yeah. So let’s let’s migrate into the parenting realm of that, you know, like, most people are a lot of people listening to this probably have kids, you know, a lot of them. Younger families, couple kids, they have a transition job, maybe they’re traveling out each summer going on trips, whatever. And a lot of times, you know, we don’t say hey, how do we? How do we be good parents in a high pressure sales owner, entrepreneur, like, whatever the job is that you’re listening? You know, we deal with certain things I think some parents don’t deal with for example, you know, most these guys at knock, they go till nine or 10 at night, and they’re not getting home till after kids are in bed. You know, I mean, or some of the times we’re gone for a week or two at a time, and we’re missing kids sports games, and mom has to play or husband has to play, you know, homemaker or if you bring them some people bring

David Kozowski 34:21
their kids on summer sales, if they bring their frame apartment set them up. It’s not like they’re spending quality.

Sam Taggart 34:25
Yeah, it’s not like it’s it’s, it’s it’s a lot of intense. You’re all in here or you’re all in here, right? There’s there’s this weird, not your typical nine to five, I’m home at five my I turn it off, you know, turning it off in our world is like not a thing. And, you know, I think that we run into this, my mind is always going even when I’m home. I’m still working, and I think affects parenting and it affects, you know, affects your kids. And I want to speak to that a little bit around. What are some tools what are some things you’ve seen or helped parents with like you said, You’re a lot of your Clients are the parents of these kids now that are in high level sales and high entrepreneur positions that have gotten to know you and gotten to trust you and your advice. And I think if you have anything to shed light on our space, we’d love to hear that.

David Kozowski 35:12
Absolutely. A some cliches are some stereotypes do have some, some, you know, there’s there’s stereotypes for a reason. Yeah, there’s some that and one of those that I’m going to share it now is, in my time here in Utah in private practice, because I used to work in psychology was like really intense situations, but 13 years I’ve been been in private practice here in Utah, get a lot of high net worth individuals that are in sales, marketing, of course, entrepreneurs that come in, and their biggest regret. And they see it now which because they’re coming into counseling, there’s you people don’t go into counseling cuz they got nothing better to do, I’m gonna go to Harmon stop my counselor real quick. doesn’t work like that, in fact, for not high net worth individuals or, you know, very driven business type people, for them to submit and to bring their kid into some sort of counseling. That’s a tough pill to swallow. Because there are so Uber focus on successful development.

Sam Taggart 36:04
Like I figured out,

David Kozowski 36:07
they realize there’s some things you need help with, you know, you can’t like, can’t be a master at all trades, right? So you get these higher net worth individuals. That’s a stereotype that have been so focused on their career, someone’s got to give. And sometimes the in myself included, they’ll say, Well, I spend lots of times I spend lots of time around my kids. But we’re doing deals on the phone, we’re responding to emails, we’re listening to self help books on Audible. We’re, we’re juggling all these different types of things. One thing that I talked about on KSL, a couple months ago, is that relationship we have with our devices, even though we’re next to our kids, we might as well be 100 miles away. They’re watching us I call they’re in competition with our phone. In Think about it, we were all jealous creatures, human beings, by nature don’t like to share the things that they want to get attention from. So if a guy you know, he likes this girl, and you know that his other buddies, like, Oh, she’s really cool, you know, and they start texting her Whoa, what are you doing, man? This is my girl, like, I don’t naturally know, you get really protective? Well, it happens even in a much lower level, to our kids their protection, protective of the time and attention they can or can’t get, yeah, or that they can get. And so what happens is they start to watch how much time and effort we put into other things. And they start to interpret that that those things are priority. Now as parents, we can swear that we’ll take a bullet for our kids, because we would we do anything for our kids. We’re working hard for our kids. And at their age, they don’t value money as any real reason to be away from them. Mm hmm.

Sam Taggart 37:43
They don’t see they don’t see money at all. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And especially probably even a younger age. I mean, they don’t even know what the like I took my daughter she had $1 went to TJ Maxx and she’s like, I’m gonna buy this toy. And I’m like, that is $25. Like to her. She’s like, I have no idea what created $1? Like, I don’t know, you go to work to go print this out. Like, yeah, like there was no, she’s five like, and I think that here’s the thing, yeah, they understand the concept of time. That’s money. That’s it

David Kozowski 38:14
now get it takes a lot longer for them to get money. What when we try to say, Hey, I just got to work and stuff like that, I suggest circling back around to your kids. And so let me give an actual tool. And just second. But so the point I was trying to make is you have people coming into counseling, I’m seeing them they’re opening up, they’re talking about the struggles. Number one regret is, after I have a conversation like this with someone, they go, Oh my gosh, I’m spending lots of time around them just not time with with them. I’m explained to them that my time away from them is solely for money, instead of giving them reassurance that they’re going to get time from me even more so because I don’t I can’t give them time right now. So when I tell it what I tell parents to do is you and this is a much bigger thing. I won’t get into details of this. But I tell them Do you statements when they’re expressing themselves to their kids. So for example, you come home, your kids are gag off your phone, get off your phone, a lot of times dad’s like, I’m not always on my phone on time. Why? Why do you think I’m on my phone all the time? You get defensive? Yeah, you start going oh, well, you know, well, you know, I spend time with you yesterday, like, you know, don’t you know, I went to the park and we quickly started to go, I’m not a bad dad. I’m not bad. Because we’re not intending

Sam Taggart 39:20
to do I’m not trying to offend you. I’m not trying to like be down. I’m just

David Kozowski 39:23
saying no one ever wants to see their kid hurt or upset. So instead, when we see our kids give us these complaints, give us these frustrations. The number one thing and this goes with the hour later, all the things, thank them for like, thanks for letting me know, thank them that they’re trusting you enough to give you this critical information in this feedback. Yeah, if we show our kids that we can’t handle the truth, their feelings, their emotions, we can’t validate that their feelings. Emotions are real, whether we agree with it or not, doesn’t even matter. If we can’t validate them,

Sam Taggart 39:54
though. they’ll lose faith in giving feedback.

David Kozowski 39:57
Well, why would they keep on doing Yeah, exactly. They’d like to note to self, I tried to open up and be honest and express myself, my dad didn’t work out well, so not to sell, don’t ever share with things him again. And this starts at a very young age. And so when they come and talk to me, they realize now oh my gosh, how do I get all these habits? I say you start with statements, if they come and criticize you, you thank them for their criticism, because there’s nobody that has that has the right to criticize you more than the people who live with you. But are you trusting that their criticism is coming? Because they want you to be a better person? Or are you looking at their criticism as they’re making you feel like you’re not a good person, you get to choose which way you want to take it. On our bad days, we can all have pity party and say, well, that’s not fair from our our spouses or partners or kids. On our good days when we’re in the zone where we’re locked in. When we’re dealing with Jocko, like a lot of great people tell us do great and great leaders do. They say you know, this is my bad? Thank you for Thank you, first of all, for sharing this me is my bad. I didn’t know you felt that way. I’m not going to say just sorry. I’m not going to say I’m not going to do it again. Oh, I’m going to say sorry. And I want you to help me come up with a plan to make sure that we figure this out. Here’s the problem with sorry, with your wife and your kids. If it’s a sorry. And then that’s the apology, saying sorry, sorry, if sorry. It’s a horrible apology. You have to say thank you for giving me the information. Give me more information. Whenever you feel that way. I’m sorry that this happened? And will you help me come up with a way to make it better? My New Year’s resolutions, whatever you want to call it, ask my wife, my kids say what do you think my goal should be for this year? And I got information. I didn’t want to share my podcast. But I said I remember this. And it sucks. But I needed that. Because since then, it’s no longer been pushed in the back of my mind. I owned it Mike, right. My little daughter put me on blast. My wife put me on blast. But here’s the thing is, when you ask for the criticism, it’s not really overly critical. It’s informative.

Sam Taggart 41:45
Yeah, it’s feedback.

David Kozowski 41:45
Let me take it as feedback. Because all the best athletes, the best people in the world, at their profession, they all have coaches, they have someone’s feedbacking that given them feedback, and sometimes it hurts and it stings. But you know, you’re better off because of it. Being comfortable as a parent means you’re not doing anything to be better. As a parent, you shouldn’t be comfortable. It will. It’s like a placeholder. It’s a moment in time. Like when I say being comfortable, you’d be comfortable, where you’re at for a moment, enjoy it, but then keep on you got to keep on turning Brian because just like sales, it’s what have you done lately? Yeah, who cares how good of a dad You were, you get dad of the year 2017. But if you’re not sure, if you’re not showing up and stepping up your game, because a lot of times what worked for your 12 year old is not gonna work for them at 14 years old. If you’re not getting their information influence you, you’re just guessing that’s like guessing what your customers want versus asking them what they want.

Sam Taggart 42:32
Amen. Now, I love this because it’s 100%. It’s like they can be your best coach, because they’re your they’re the ones you’re trying to serve. And it’s it’s being one having a place for them to be open and authentic with what they’re trying to share if you shut that down too much. That’s I mean, I’m lucky. I’ve only got a five and a three year old right now. So I’m like, okay, I could I could add it up right now fast. Because these are the critical years, they’re probably gonna start learning

David Kozowski 43:00
but to know stuff, not just what I’m saying, just to be looking for this information. Yes, your huge advantage. Like I said, the biggest regrets have a lot of people come to me and said, we have these great toys, we go in great trips. And it doesn’t feel great while we’re there. Yeah, it’s relationships. And the connections have not been forged, where they’re trusting. Now I’m just spending money for all my friends to bring their kids and make them happy. But they don’t want to spend time with me. They’re not trying to kick me because there’s something about me, that is just been undesirable. And it may not because you’re may not because you’re bad dad, it may just because they feel like they don’t connect with you and you don’t connect with them. You don’t have anything in common the root of the word relationship is relate. And you’re gonna have a better relationship with people that you feel they understand relate to you and you understand relate to them.

Sam Taggart 43:44
And I feel like I’m just getting kicked in the nuts right now. This is good. We just went to his wife set up this podcast. No, I did. And she was like, having David on. I was like, he’s like, Can I beat him? And I was like, yeah, it’s gonna be sick. Now, so we’re kind of running on time. The one last question, I guess, would be for that kind of person that’s maybe in desperation. They’re sitting there going, I don’t have a relationship with my kid. I want to change that. You know, there are parents sitting there going, Man, I’ve, I can’t rewind the last five years. What advice would you give them to kind of say, Let’s reset the clock and do some stuff moving forward?

David Kozowski 44:25
Well, I’m gonna give you a twofer. This is gonna be for all you salespeople out there. If you want to step up your sales game, this is going to help you and it’s going to also at the same time, help you step up your close intimate relationship game as well. It’s called video journaling. Okay? You take your cell phone out, you put it on airplane mode, make sure you’re alone in your car somewhere you know that you know, the airplane mode, so no one disrupts you. You put your phone up in front of you. I have a little thing on my dash and I do because I do these all time. And what you do is you press record, not on the selfie mode, you have to make sure that you can’t see your face while you’re recording. It’s too distracting it. This is the biggest thing that triggers our shame and insecurities brings everything to surface. Okay, you’ll get into smoke. So you start talking. At first some people like, Captain’s log three, five to seven at a breakfast and bacon like there. It’s really nerve wracking. And here’s the reason why the video camera does not lie. The still camera lies, it’s called a selfie. You can take 50 shots, get that angle, rise, one, do the duck lips, whatever you got to do. But the video camera does not lie. So here’s what happens. If you’re full of crap when you’re start talking about the things that you think are important, but the things that you think you should be focusing on, you go back and watch that video. Every and this comes from basic psychology that I’ve never heard anyone to screw with this, you are your own worst enemy, you are your own worst critic, right? Everyone agrees with that? Well, that is a truthful statement. When you’re down and out. You’re if you’re capable, be more critical yourself in any other human being, then the opposite also has to be true. You’re also capable of being your best coach, your best counselor, and ultimately, your own best friend. My best friends. They do this for me and I do this for them. When I’m down, they tell me it’s not that bad. Like they pick me up, they cheer me up. When I’ve made mistakes and struggled they remind me of good times. When I’m you know, going through difficult times, no matter what it is they get my back. But when I get cocky and arrogant, they go Whoa, whoa, whoa, easy there, bro. I remember that one time and they remind me my armpits still stink. I’m not all that special. Our best friends. They’ve been through the trenches with us. Yeah, they love us regardless. But they can be honest with us in a way that we know we have to take it serious because they don’t have an agenda to change us. They just want us to be happy. So being your own best friend is what happens when you do these, these video journals. Because your own best friend can call you on your own Bs, but also help you realize if you’re being too hard on yourself, because you haven’t been selling well. You’ll watch that video. And as you’re watching video, you get into third party, it’s called a three dimensional approach. You’re looking at it going to like you’re not that bad to like, remember that one time and you start remembering all the things that you’ve forgotten. Then what happens on the other end of the spectrum, as you start talking about personal relationships. People think they have a problem, they start talking about it out loud, it engages all the senses. Writing is a great tool. I’m not saying don’t journal writing is a great tool for a certain part of your process your brain. But here’s the big problem with it. It takes a long time to do and we tend to write as if someone famous is going to read it without not Snow’s my pain and my struggles. And we get like all up in our own head and like, trust me my journals. I’m like, Oh my god, some of them are just not always but someone we’re trying to be honest. But we’re just sounding fake, right? But if you watch a video my very first true Sir, my very first three video journals I’ve ever done because I this was years ago, I came up with this concept. These three journals that I did, I did them I went back and looked at him. I was watching them. I was like, I wouldn’t hang out with that guy. I wouldn’t kick it with them. He’s full of crap. I was like, you know, I’m like fixing my eyebrows like like someday someone important going to see this and I’m going to be a celebrity I would look them up What are you doing? So I go I can’t do a video during like that. Someone that counseled their their child died in a very bad accident. Five years old. They called me up said our child died today. Will you do grief counseling for our whole entire family tomorrow? And I said yes. And I go, how many people are going to be there they go about 100. So I hung up the phone, I was freaking out. I flipped on the video camera and I started talking Little did I know the big reason why I was freaking out besides the fact that I was going to be doing this hard thing because my wife was just about to have her firstborn son. I was so fearful this relationship with my son and this guy just lost his firstborn son. It messed me up in ways that I had no idea until I did this video journal. I started talking I went from being nervous to do it. Then I got done. I was like, let’s do this. I was anxious to do it. But I had to go through this weird process of seeing myself I was crying I was next you know I worked it out all the things that were struggling aside it unlocks it and brings it to the surface. I people before they go on sales calls will go but boom, they do a video journal, they will leave the toxic anxiety and stress they’ve had a practice run and they go and say it oh my gosh, that interview that sales call it works so much better because I got it down. So video journaling is the way if you want to really face your shame your insecurities. Dude, there’s nothing like it a video camera because I’m looking at video camera going Damn, I thought I looked forever 21 I barely that’s just a store in the mall because I don’t look 21 no more. I’m like, man, I need to I’m looking at my double chin. I people do this. They’re like, I can’t believe I look like this. But you have to keep on going. As soon as you see your insecurities. look past that because we don’t know here’s nothing about video drills. We don’t know what other people see. I had parents that were so mad at their teens all the time. So Mathur kids flip flopping out, go next time you feel that way. Do a video journal. They looked at the video journal go What do you think now they go I’m embarrassed. I look like a ridiculous lunatic. And I thought I was being sensible No wonder my kids can’t talk me and open up about things that video drone will show you things no one else can show you

Sam Taggart 49:53
and you just say that on your phone somewhere.

David Kozowski 49:55
Yeah, so you save it on your phone. Think about like a time capsule. That video journal that I have With that family I have that saved I have a little you know file for it. But what I do is when my son before he’s born I had a very big breakthrough video journal. When he’s 16 years old mad at me pissed off me he’ll like you don’t care about me you don’t love me. I can push that phone in front of them press play Mike drop walk out of the room. He needs to see me when I was scared. He needs to see me when it was happening because when we relay stories, yeah, when I was a kid, you know, I show that to you. We’ll be fine. That doesn’t help nobody. Yeah, it’ll be nice to hear that you’ll be okay. But if you can show your kids your wife and for yourself start a video journal when you’re starting a new sales job and at the end of each week at the end of each quarter whatever I have people do highs and lows you do journals and what were your highs what were your lows the human brain can’t keep all that information stored. There’s so many things that we said we’re going to do and then we forget Two weeks later yeah if you want to follow through with goals video journal it look at it like a time capsule you can look three weeks ago I suck now I’m doing better three months from now

Sam Taggart 50:55
Dang, dude, I

David Kozowski 50:56
want to call in now or like day I forgot what I what I told myself I was going to do is an ultimate accountability it put yourself in check. And I love it. Because when I’m watching myself, I can’t I can’t say that. I didn’t say that. That’s me. There’s it’s just right there and it’s true.

Sam Taggart 51:12
Yeah, I love that. I have a mastermind group. I think I’m going to implement it’s legit.

David Kozowski 51:15
I’ve done this rogue X was people that have panic attacks. They’ll start a video journal stops the panic attack they watch a panic attack which is hard to get people to do they watch it like I’m not having panic attacks more because I realized it’s real but it’s not real. Yeah, like get outside of your own head.

Sam Taggart 51:29
I love this. Okay, invite do your video journal share it with me I want to see it

David Kozowski 51:34
dude honestly I have my clients like that cuz mine’s a little bit deeper SP personal but if you have your sales guys do vintage girls and tell it but think about before and after highs lows here’s my highs in my sales today. Here’s my lows martial arts instructors guys are changing jitsu at they’ll have their students go Okay, what did you do good day and what do you need to work on the kids video, bring it back like, okay, just helps you start to flow now because we want to put like, if I made a bad mistake today, then I’m the mistake. I know the day had a lot of nuances. You had some wins, you had some losers. Some losses don’t like crucify yourself because you had a bad day. See the high and the low.

Sam Taggart 52:09
I have 100% way I’m gonna utilize this right now. I’m stoked. I look forward to hearing how it goes. Okay, we’re out of time. But David, this has been awesome. So if people want to find more of David, where would the best place for them to find you and your stuff?

David Kozowski 52:22
Well, we can listen me at like the fight podcast, it’s on every podcast app you could possibly imagine. My big thing right now is because I mentioned I gave a TED talk on what I call the parent teen partnership. It’s basically what I call the family business model approach. If any of you out there have kids, teenagers, that you try to like, okay, I’ll give you a new Xbox. I’ll do this if you do your chores. we’ve all tried different ways to work with kids, I took an old business model called a contingency agreement, and I fine tune it for years. Basically, you can buy my ecourse online at Pt partnership.com. I’m right now I’m running a sale on the ecourse to get $50 off. But basically what it is it breaks it down all the downloads, all the pronounces how to run your own successful parenting partnership, because if you see your family as a business, and you’re the boss, if you see your kid as a lower level employee that you just want to be obedient. When they turn 18 the chances of them being like deuces, I’m out, I want nothing to do with the family business are very high. But if you get your kid a seat at a management table, bring them through management training, let them have a voice in everything that family’s going like going through even if you don’t use their information, just let them have a voice when they turn 18 years old. They’re not just an employer as manager, why would someone abandon a business that they built? Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense. These are the successful families, they saw their families of business, they treat it like a business and therefore they learn how to not micromanage. Bring the younger employees up so that way someday they’re going to be your successor. They are going to take over the family business if you do it well. And so that’s my parent team partnership approach. That’s what teaches you how to do

Sam Taggart 53:51
love it go check her partnership. Yeah, I love that. Well appreciate this. This has been awesome. Share this if you got some love and hopefully you guys are inspired to be better fathers and and husbands and wives and you know mothers out there so

David Kozowski 54:05
it’s better people, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Idiots out there. Then we’re gonna we hit that quota. Yeah, it’s a it’s not hard for dad to flip out on his kids. like God grandpa’s been doing that for generations. You know,

Sam Taggart 54:18
we’ve hit that quota. Yeah, I love that. Okay, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, Sam. Thanks.