D2Con is right around the corner with Mastermind Day, January 16th in Salt Lake City, Utah with Tim Grover, Author of Relentless and Michael Jordan’s coach.
You also have a marquee speaker in former NBA all-star, January 17th and 18th at the salt palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. I’ll tell you of Ed Mylett, Coach Burt, Tim Grover, and many more famous speakers and workshops on how to improve your leadership, sales and recruiting. Register today, D2D con.com for D2Dcon. New users, we have a DVD you after-party Friday night. Don’t miss out. Pre-register at D2DCon.
Speaker 2: (00:43)
All right everybody, this is Sam Taggart, your host with the D2D podcast and and I’m here with coach Burt, the author of 14 books. He is the ultimate coach on extracting the Prey Drive. Like making people have this ultimate prey instinct, bring out of people and the coaching and your motto is everybody needs a coach in life, right? And you’ve gone and coached businesses and CEOs and salespeople and managers and all these leaders.
Speaker 1: (01:07)
You’ve written all these books and been around the block. It looks like we’re here in Nashville or Nashville outside of Nashville. I say Nashville. What’s the town called? Murfreesboro. Freeze borough. That’s a tongue twister. Say that 10 times fast. But we are here in his studio and we are going to be diving in on what makes a good coach and why do people need a coach. And I really am excited about this concept and I think that I agree with you when you say everybody needs a coach in life, you know, I was thinking about it with like movies or you think of like any, any good movie you watch, like the remember the Titans and you watch any athletic film. Then you go watch any kind of film like even Aladdin had a coach, right? I mean it’s like you think about it. So I’m really excited, dive in and obviously speaking at door to door con.
Speaker 1: (01:51)
So yeah. Are you excited for that? I’m very excited about that. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Big stage where I’m just curious too, where did you, where did you find me? W how did you know? Did you see you somewhere? You’ve seen down seventh street and then this guy, what’s really cool? Yeah. You over on the side of the corner, you want to, you want to speak? No, no, I looked, I mean as I spoke at 10 ex-con. Yeah. And I saw you speak at a couple of other events. I watched some of your YouTube videos and I was like, I resonate. I like them Southern accents. I liked that. I liked that little Bible belt slur. I like this, you know, I really resonated with your message and how he crafted the speakers with ed. My let Tim Grover you, uh, you know we have Clint Pulver, some of it like we just said, what are all the principles that we want to hit on? Yes. From the main stage, all compliment each other. Yes. I don’t want a ton of like rah rah this raw, this and raw this. And it’s like, dude, I’m almost hurt with the raw Roz. I want like mentorship, this, recruiting, this sales, this raw, raw, this, you know what I mean? And we kind of really crafted the concepts of what we wanted is really what really called us. And coaching is a big one. So we have you and
Speaker 2: (03:00)
Mark Eaton, who’s a former basketball player. Oh yeah. Coach basketball. Yeah. He’s the seven foot. Right. He’s got a few feet taller than me. Yeah. You standing next to Mark’s can be interesting, but both of you two are really spoke. You’re speaking on team and coaching and kind of that, the importance of kind of the mentor and coach. Sure. Great. Anyway, yeah, no, I’m very excited. I do believe, you know, of course I spoke with ed, my lead at 10 X, uh, Tim Grover, and I’ve become very good friends. We talk almost weekly. So it’s just one of those things. I think it’s a good lineup. I think what you put together as a quality lineup, and like you said, it’s not just raw, raw, it’s people have real substance. They built real businesses. They, they, they’ve done something right. They’ve, they’ve won something. They’ve achieved something. They produce something.
Speaker 2: (03:46)
It’s not, it’s, it’s real people that are out there doing it, man. No, and that’s, and that’s like one of the most important things is we didn’t want any fluff. We wanted people to get it. Totally agree. Uh, so, so let’s dive into this. Like what God are you into? Coaching basketball. I mean that’s kind of what your initial, my initial, when I was very young, uh, I was raised by a single mother who, who worked two jobs and she used to take me down to a local baseball field while she was working her second job. And I would stay down there for hours and hours and hours. And it was coaches that tended to me, that fed me, that, that believed in me, that affirmed me. And one particular coach was a female coach and they make events and who was coaching little league baseball, which was kinda odd, right?
Speaker 2: (04:29)
Choose the one female coach. It was a male. It was not normal. It was a male dominated deal. And, but, but this woman really looked after me, cared for me while my mother was working at this job. And she used to say to me as early as six years old, son, one of these days, you’re going to be a great coach. She recognized that he may be the coach at a sheet. You’re going to be a great player. Yeah. She used to say to me, son, one of these days, when you grow up, you’re going to be a great coach. And I went back many years later and said, how did you know that? She said, you’re always so curious. You are always directing and leading and guiding and all your teammates are playing and you’re sitting there playing the director. Yeah. Like I was a great little player but, but I was more so, but I really was concerned about the game and the potential of the other people as well.
Speaker 2: (05:17)
And so when I was in high school, my high school basketball coach called me professor. He said, the way you think, the way you analyze, you’re always studying, thinking and, and maneuvering. So you know, from an early age, my high school basketball coach called coach Sam. Oh yeah. I made a hat that said coach Sam on it. Like they made it for me. Yeah. And it wasn’t because of what they said to you. It was because I thought I knew more than . That’s fine. So it wasn’t a compliment. It was, yeah, I’m shut up, stop being try to be coach, coach a, players like that, but that’s kind of where it all started is so I hear her this my whole life. I started coaching junior pro basketball, which was just nine to 12 year old kids. I was 15 and then I became an elementary coach at 18 I was recruited to the second largest high school in Tennessee, which happens to be in the city when I was 19 so while I was going to college, I was already coaching and it was very important.
Speaker 2: (06:10)
Now that’s, that’s also there’s an important part of the story there because I was introduced to Stephen Covey when I was 18 and I started reading the seven habits of highly effective people. I started studying the whole person theory. I started studying how to tap into the whole person, the body, the mind, the heart, and the spirit, and I began teaching my players those seven habits, which was unheard of. No other coaches were doing these things. They’re just saying, run faster and shoot better. They did. The coaches didn’t understand that there’s more to a person in the body. The body is one component of a person’s nature. There’s a very true, in a sales world, you could have skill as a salesperson but with no desire or prey drive, what I call prey drive with the heart. What good is it to have knowledge with no desire?
Speaker 2: (06:56)
What good is it to have skill with no confidence. So when I learned this whole person theory, I begin to go, okay, I can tap into all four parts of these players in nature. I can grow the body, that skill, the mind, that’s knowledge, the heart, that’s passion and the spirit. That’s confidence. Okay? Now if you look at salespeople out there in the world today, all over the world, if they are not producing it is because they are deficient in one of those four components. I love that cause we always talking about they’re not buying, they’re not trusting the product or company, you know like whatever. Right? The price and it’s like what do we think of in the sales process is say, how do you diagnose exactly. Are you a 10 out of 10 on confidence? Okay, we’re a seven. Exactly. Where are you at on your, I love that.
Speaker 2: (07:38)
Yeah. I mean, we had a sale today that the young lady on my sales team, you know when she explained this summit that I’m doing this weekend, the coaching summit, she explained it like this and the person on the other end of the phone who was in Boston couldn’t see enough value to spend that much money on the Summit’s $5,000 summit. Right? Well, when I got on the phone with him, I said, let me put this in a broader frame. Let me give you some more perspective on exactly what I’m going to be teaching. Let me show you how this is going to help you turn this into money quicker, right? Yes. Well, and one conversation with me, he was ready to buy. So what’s the difference between me and her? My skill level is stronger than her skill level. My experience is stronger than her.
Speaker 2: (08:17)
My confidence is higher than hers now. It’s not lack of effort on her part. She’s got the desire, right? She’s got the prey drive, she’s trying to make the sale. She just needs more coaching and skill and confidence. And that’s why I’m her coach. So my goal with her is to get her to a million dollars of commissionable income. So sh so I’m trying to get her a twin. She’s 25 years old and I’m trying to get her to sell $1 million of coaching a year right at 25 that’s awesome. And so I think I can get her right now to six or 700,000 but I’m coaching her every day. So I’m listening to her conversation. I’m giving her counsel, I’m going, you could do this. Let me explain what I said him versus what you said to him that see that when I learned the theory from Covey, now any of your salespeople, they’re going to come to this conference.
Speaker 2: (09:02)
We could sit there and diagnose, Oh this dude, he’s got skill. He just don’t have the effort. He don’t make it. You don’t ride. You don’t knock on the doors to many of those in our industry. Too many of those. Yeah. So, so, so here’s the deal. What would I say as a coach? I would say Sam, help now help me to understand how much money you’d like to earn this year. And you give me a number and that’s it. Will help me to understand why you’re, you’re putting this kind of effort into it. Are you serious? On a scale of one to 10 Sam, how serious are you about making that much money? Well, I’m serious cause it don’t seem like you’re this series to me because you’re telling me you’re at a seven. I’m seeing a two or three effort. Your desire is not there man. So, so what I try to do is take something real complicated and make it real simple. And that’s what a good coach really does. So when I walk into a company or a sales team, I’m trying to take a complicated process and make it simple. Man, let’s get better at these four things. Let’s get better at this system, then we can go sell more.
Speaker 1: (10:01)
I love that. Yeah. So let’s, let’s break it down to the sales guy. Cause a lot of sales guys listen to this and, and, and maybe this, we can then apply it to the manager and the owner. You know, cause there’s those people listening to, so I’m, I’m, well no, not the sales guy. Let’s put it to those sales manager who’s managing the sales guys. That’s who I want to teach right here is I’m running a sales guy and I can’t seem to get him to stop being complacent. He’s lazy, he’s tired, he’s never working his efforts. Like what are, what are some key conversations I can have to help pull this prey drive out of him? Cause I feel like a good coach. There is a, there’s the ability to activate.
Speaker 2: (10:40)
Yeah. And, and there’s a big difference. I, I want to be no more as an activator versus a motivator. Yeah. Cause I can motivate all day, but goes away real quick. So I want you to think of prey drive as an instinctual. It’s instinctual ability to see something and have the fortitude to go get it. Like it’s prevalent in dogs. A dog has a prey drive. Right? And, and when that dog’s prey drive is activated, I don’t care how small that dog is or how innocent it seems, you would not want to be alone in the room with that dog. Pray drive his ability to, to, to stalk, chase, kill prey and bring it home. Okay, so a good salesperson has a Prager. I believe humans have prey drive. Now the job of the coach, the manager is to activate that prey drive. So then you step back and you start asking what would activate the prey driver in that salesperson that’s complacent.
Speaker 2: (11:32)
Well, if you study motivational theories, uh, one motivational theory is satisfied needs never motivate a person, only unsatisfied needs. So if a person likes the car, they drive the house they live in, where their kids go to school, they’re making a decent income. What would activate their prey drive? All of their needs are met. Their prey drive has been suppressed because everything is good. Why would I need anymore? Right? So to activate prey drive, you have to understand the activators are prey. Drive curiosity, excuse me. Competition is an activator. Prey drive, right? Inspired by other people is an activator. A prey drive. Environments can be activators or prey. Draft compensation can be activator, prey, drive. Fear of loss is a huge activator of prey drive. Meaning if I said, Sam, I’m looking at what you’re doing, man, you’re losing a quarter of a million dollars a year by not doing these three things by cutting out two hours of your day.
Speaker 2: (12:28)
That’s right. Add that up over a year. That’s right. Just forfeited a month. That’s right. And how much more money, you know, that’s 100000 bucks to you. So the manager has got to understand these activators of prey drive that cause in each person it’s different. For example, there’s coaching a 61 year old commercial real estate person in Boston yesterday and she says to me, we do power hours. We do all of these things to incentivize who has the most phone calls. She’s like, none of that activates my draft coach. She said, I’m motivated to earn income, so my son who’s in college, I can give him some money and I can plan for my retirement. But these things, these games we’re doing do nothing for me. Well, they don’t understand that one size does not fit all when it comes to activating pre-draft a good culture. Now this is a very important for all your, for all your listeners and viewers, like I’m coaching a culture in st Louis insurance culture, $25 million company, the owners are 33 31 28 25 million bucks.
Speaker 2: (13:29)
They’re doing 100,000 a day, okay? They saw me teach this concept, but prey drive their five activators or prey drive, they found a way to include all five into their culture. They got competition, environment, fear of loss, compensation, right? Inspired by others. They’ve got all of these activators in their culture. They’ve ingrained like a system that’s great. Associate could touch all that could touch all five and it might be a couple of different systems, right? So the call, the call deal that they’re doing, it’s not that it’s bad, but that’s only one. Competition is only one activator. Like I’m a championship coach, but, but I’m not truly motivated by competition. It’s an odd thing. I don’t wake up. It’s that gotta be number one. Like who’s number one? Me, Grover, my leg Cardone. Like I don’t, that’s not what motivates me. What motivates me is you come into me going, um, we’re going to go out there and do something big and I need you.
Speaker 2: (14:25)
Right? Like I need your skillset to go do this. Like I’m motivated by process, I’m motivated by, let’s, let’s set a big target, let’s move toward that target. And the process of moving toward it is actually a big motivator for me. But I’m actually motivated by fear of loss too. Yeah. It’s like, what have I done? I didn’t accomplish this. Right? Or I’ve built a good life and I don’t want to lose it. Or I liked the house I live in or I like the jet that I fly on or I like that. You see what I’m saying? Like I’m motivated. Like I’ve worked hard to build this. I don’t want to lose it. So different people have different motivators of prey drive. Most managers to your question have never been trained even in how to activate pre-draft. No, they did. It’s like you go from sales guy to manager, that doesn’t mean I know how to act like maybe internally I was a good sales guy so that’s why I’m a manager.
Speaker 2: (15:13)
But there’s a difference between activating somebody else’s drive than it is yourself. Exactly. Like what does it for you might not do it for me. Exactly. So you, you telling me, you know like I ask direct questions to people and I say, Sam, help me to understand this. Or you said you want to do this, but your effort is saying this. Like you’re telling me this but your body language is telling me this. Like help me to understand are you serious about making more money or not? Cause if you’re more serious, you’d be prospecting two hours a day. You’d be following up seven touches in a followup, right? You’d be trying to get six referrals out of every deal you’re currently doing. So it doesn’t seem like to me you’re, that series seemed like to me, you’re serious about majoring in the minors. Like I asked very hard questions to people as a coach where they go, you’re right, I do need to buckle down.
Speaker 2: (15:58)
Like with my salespeople. I just ask them direct questions like, you told me this but you’re doing this and I’m confused. Your efforts confusing me being and the way that you’re delivering that isn’t coming off like, no, it’s just saying you’re saying this but and you’re almost playing this whole kind of naive or not like it’s intentional, but it’s like you’re almost playing this, you’re saying this, but dude, like your efforts showing you this in the way that you’re approaching is kind of like helping them come to, here’s the deal. I want to build high degrees of personal responsibility in my people. Meaning if Sam, you were on my team when you’re hitting your sales goals or trying to, you’re not doing it for me. You’re not doing for my company. You’re doing it for you and your family and your kids and your future.
Speaker 2: (16:42)
Does that make sense? Like everything, like I don’t believe in tricks. I don’t believe in. What I mean by that is I don’t give away a lot of incentives or tropes, our Starbucks gift card every day or $100 if you do this. Here’s the deal. I’m trying to build stone-cold killing machine. Sorry, I’m trying to build people, men who have wants to build stone cold killer. That’s what, that’s what I’m trying to build. So I’m not interested in who’s going to get a Starbucks gift card today. I’m interested in when you walk out of my office today, at the end of the day, Sam, the reward you get is your own personal satisfaction that you crushed it. You don’t need coach Berg to tell you you don’t need a gift card. I’m just a believer that I know when I’ve had a good day, when I’ve had a bad day, I don’t need some trinket or gift or tree up. Like I want to earn enough income that I don’t get a reward trip. I can pay for my own trips. I don’t need you to give me a reward trip. I already have enough money to buy wherever I want to go cause I’m a stone killer. So I don’t need you to like incentivize me with the tree up. I need you to keep coaching me so I can earn more income. Yes, I love that. That’s what I’m interested in. So let’s shift gears a little bit. Let’s say
Speaker 1: (17:50)
I’m a sales rep and I don’t have a great coach. I’m stuck in a situation where my manager maybe just never was trained. He was never really, you know, he’s trying, I’m not saying he’s a bad manager, I’m just simply saying he’s not doing it for me. Like I can’t really rely on him. Like what, what advice would you give that sales guy?
Speaker 2: (18:09)
Well, I, I believe that we are where we are today based on every choice we made up until today. Just cause I have a lousy sales managers. Don’t mean I can’t hit my sales goals. There’s plenty of sales collateral. There’s plenty of things you can do. You’ve come to your conference, you can watch YouTube videos, you can get it online academies, you can get into coaching program. Like, I don’t believe that the individual salesperson should blame it on the manager because they’re going to have more bad managers and good ones. I think it’s, look, it’s pretty common. It’s, yeah, it’s pretty common. So, so here’s the deal. It’s your life. This I know. Practice life man. You can blame whoever you want to right now. That’s scenario a. Scenario B is get in an environment where you can thrive in. Yeah, go, come work for a guy like me. They’ll work for a guy like a my lead or our Grover or Cardone or Sam Taggart, whatever. They’ll work for somebody where, where you can get apprenticed correctly. Cause one mistake I see from the 20 to 30 year old, I’m 43 years old, right? I’ve been coaching for 27 years. One huge mistake I see the 20 to 30 year old make is they have not been properly groomed for success.
Speaker 1: (19:12)
And it’s probably more common today’s world than maybe 20 years ago because people want to fast track. They want the micro of mentality, you know what I mean? And it’s, yeah, they think I better just do it on my own first. And that’s what I’ve been trained and taught stead of the apprenticeship stage, that whole four year, like you think of medical school, there’s this apprenticeship. It’s, you’re in your residency, you’re going from doctor to doctor. You’re right. You know what I mean? And it’s like in business people aren’t willing to do the apprenticeships aspect. They need to go for the mentor over the money. And I, yeah. So anyway, you don’t know my background a lot, but I actually forfeited a way bigger opportunity in pay in a way higher pay, you know, opportunity to just stay with my manager one more year. I was like, can you, I just want to stay with you one more year. And he’s like, okay. I was like, dude, like I just am learning so much and I’m willing to pay in potential income for the education. And I looked at that as my college.
Speaker 2: (20:16)
There you go. But see that’s uncommon. So uncommon. That’s unheard of. Most people don’t. Most people want to come and they may want to work or work with me for a short period of time. Then they, it’s like you go at such a pace, I can’t keep up and I didn’t know it was gonna be this hard. Like we run through 20 to 30 year olds like crazy. Which is why, which is why I like the 25 year old we have down there because she’s tough. I couldn’t run her off. She kept showing up. Even when she didn’t hit her sales number, she just kept showing up where another person would come in and after a month, a month, if they’re not making high income, they want to quit. They’re like, this is hard. I’ve got, I thought it was going to be motivational everyday.
Speaker 2: (20:51)
Like I thought it’s going to be run coach bird everyday. Like I’m like we’ll run a business man. We gotta sell something light. Like I am motivational but, but you mentioned something that triggered something in me. I’m intense, but I’m positive I don’t get negative when I get intense. Okay. A lot of people get negative. The more intense they get. The more negative they become, they become more of like a like a tiger. Like it’s like almost aggressive, like through fear. They motivate through fear. I tried to do it in a way where you go, that dude’s right, man, I do need to work harder. I can’t get better. I can reach my goals. He’s fighting for me. Right? Like if you study the NFL, 26% of the players in the NFL. So they, they had any coach they could play for A’s. Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks.
Speaker 2: (21:34)
And they ask, is he, cause he’s always clapping and upbeat and Pat people on the back and he looks like he’s having fun. Right? And they ask his players, is he easy to play for? And every player’s like no. Like he has the most incredible expectations you can imagine. But he’s intense and he’s positive, which is why so many players want to play for him. He gets mad. I just want to Superbowl. He gets maximum numbers out of his people, but he does it in a different way that I got to stand over there and be miserable or Yale or cuss it. Everybody. You see what I’m saying? Yeah. I’m kinda like a Pete Carroll. I like that. I’m upbeat, I’m positive, I’m friendly, but I’m not afraid to get intense. But, but, but I will. But I will get in your grill. Here’s a, here’s a common thing in our industry.
Speaker 2: (22:18)
Managers are afraid to get intense and get true coaches and fear of running their sales guys off and come in and it’s so cut throat, so competitive. So you know, well I’ll just go to this company so threatening or Oh, if you don’t pay me this or if I don’t, you know, if you treat me like, like, it’s so finicky and, and this is a problem in our industry where guys are afraid to truly get intense with their people and so they don’t, in fear of losing their sales guys like they’re to listen. I coached, I was a championship coach. I built a national championship culture. Here’s what I would tell you. And here’s what I tell those people anytime I played not to lose it. Always guaranteed loser. when you play from a position of scarcity holding on to everything, like I can’t lose it.
Speaker 2: (23:06)
You understand what I’m saying? What you do is you start making very bad decisions. You need to play to win. Okay? So if I pushed the people down there and they leave, so what? There’s 7 billion people, I’ll get more. I’m only looking for people. They’re looking for me, man. I love that. I literally just did a speaking event here and I trained on recruiting, right? So recruiting is a big pillar in our business. And literally there everybody was like, well, I just don’t want to recruit my competition or I want to, I don’t want to train my competition. And I’m like, so you’re not gonna recruit because you don’t want to train somebody that maybe we’ll leave you one day and you’re like, you’re like three steps ahead of yourself. It’s such a low level that that’s a low frequency thought. Oh, I was like, I literally, when they said that to me and it was like everybody was like, yeah, I’m like rallying around this guy.
Speaker 2: (23:54)
And I’m like, no wonder. None of you have teams bigger than five that it’s such a scarcity mindset because I was scripted by Covey. You’re either scripted and scarcity or abundance. Amen. Okay. Scarcity is like I said, there’s not enough. We’re in competition with everybody. If you get a piece, it’s taken away from my piece. The reality is there is no shortage of anything here. Here’s an example. It’s like the ocean. You could get a teaspoon or a 20 gallon bucket and the ocean don’t care. It’s infinite. It’s where does air stop out there and starting here, it’s everywhere, right? So, so there’s no shortage of money. There’s no shortage of opportunity. There’s no shortage of anything. There’s a shortage of creativity. There’s a shortage of courage. There’s a shortage of confidence. Like those are low confidence, insecure people making those statements. I love like I got to hold on to everything.
Speaker 2: (24:47)
Uh, when I was coaching, you’re taking me back to my old days here. Cause when I was let out when I was a basketball coach, after my first three or four years, I poured all this time and energy into these players and they opened up a new school cause our city was growing at one time, this city was the sixth fastest growing city in the United States. Okay. It’s outside of Nashville. It’s booming. And so some of the players wanted to leave and go to the new school because, uh, they could start, maybe they’re on the bench for me and now they can go over here and start. Right. And at first I just freaked out cause I was a young coach. I’m like, why would you leave? And Oh my gosh, here goes all my bench and scarcity. And then I made up my mind, no, no, no, we have everything we need to whip your butt.
Speaker 2: (25:32)
Right? And here’s what I told him. You can go over there if you want to, but we’re gonna, we’re gonna whip you like we’re going to start as my bench before I still went. That’s right. It’s like, and then I made up my mind, we don’t need, we don’t need you. If you want to go over there, go over. There was such a, it’s such a defining moment for me cause I figured out some of the people you think you need in your life you don’t need. Okay. You, there’s all the resources you need are in your network right now. Right. You don’t need like I like, like I had dinner with Tim story last night. One of my good friends is here where he was in Nashville today speaking. Tim story. Yeah. I literally listened to his and ed, my last podcast. I almost cried.
Speaker 2: (26:10)
The guy seems freaking no, he is. He is and so he was in 21 he was in town. He’d be a great person for you. Yeah, he, he was in town. He called me and said let’s have dinner and we had a great dinner last night, but, but here’s the deal. All, I just see all these connections that we have. And he was like, I was telling Tim was telling my left the day before. He’s like, man, you got to get to know coach Burt better. Y’all are, you know what I’m saying? Like story was with my layout and he was saying, man, I was telling my leg, you two need to be together more. And it’s just, we’re all one person away from a new season in life. One connection, there’s no shortage. Here’s what I’m trying to tell you. Like I was trying to get a number today form a, you know, different people like Jordan Bell for today. I was trying to text you his number. Yeah, yeah. Text me his number. I’m like, I’ll text you. That’s what I’m saying. So my point is, because he spoke at your conference, right? So, so my point is, you know, I want to have him on person of interest. He, I can be on his show, whatever. Um, but the concept is it’s out there. It’s available to us. Quit, quit playing scared. It’s not, it’s not attractive.
Speaker 1: (27:17)
I love that. Sound attractive. So we are, we’re short on time. So I wanna I want to ask a couple last little quick questions just to kind of rapid fire, uh, if you were to give, you know, the 10 year old version of you or maybe like the 20 year old version of you, let’s go back to 20 year old. Yeah. What would have you told him? Knowing what you know now you know what like what,
Speaker 2: (27:38)
there’s two, there’s two things. Those are easy for me. One is I didn’t have any real business coaching from 20 to 30. I was a basketball coach. I didn’t know the difference between an asset and a liability. I wish I had had great business coaching because where I am today is good, but where I really could have been, how’d you accelerate it? A little bit more of the business and the business side. Okay. The second thing is when I become a head coach, early in my career I was very selfish. I was very focused on me, my program, I didn’t care about the football team and this team and so I really wasn’t an ambassador for them. So instead of building advocates and allies and friends and people fighting for me, I really kind of kept to myself. I was, I was, I was focused inward and if I had to go back and tell the 20 year old coach, I’d say, man, support everybody love on the football team.
Speaker 2: (28:29)
Now same thing is true here. Like, like get out in the world and build advocates, fight for people, support people. Don’t be like, like don’t be so self centered in self-absorbed that it’s all about you. Okay? Just promote and believe in. And people ask me all the time about what’d you think about these two dudes getting in an argument with each other? I’m like, man, I like both of those dudes. Both of them bring something to the equation. I have a mad respect for them because I don’t want to get caught up in feelings and dramas and it’s a small time to me. We’re majoring in the minors. This dude’s a world-class, this dude’s a world-class dude and this dudes a world-class dude and they might not like each other for whatever reason, but it’s okay. It’s okay man. Learn something from both of them
Speaker 1: (29:17)
and, and, and, and you said something else like you get involved in the football even though you’re the basketball program. Say, how do I have my hand in a few things and be out there? Like, it’s so funny, I was reading some of your book titles even it’s swing with a monster accountable church, which is for church people, I’m assuming swag, which is confidence, confidence. You got the anatomy of winning, which is more, I’m assuming sports-related cultures inside the Monster’s mind. You know what I mean? There’s so different niches. You have three different podcasts to be kind of, Hey, like I’m touching on religious to this, to that. And I think that’s, I think there’s something to be said where so many people are like, just be in your own little like corner. And I’m kinda like, well how do you impact the most amount of people if your corners Rosemont? And the reality is
Speaker 2: (30:06)
I believe in intentional congruence and intentional congruence is where everything feeds everything. Yes, I do not separate out my faith and my, and my personal life and my work life. It’s all one life. It’s one integrated life. Okay, so I may be in Boston one day talking to Christian leaders on my book, the accountable church and the very next day speaking to a multilevel marketing company and the very next day speaking to a hedge fund managers and that, you understand what I’m saying? Like to me it’s all one deal, man. It’s just one deal. I don’t separate this out. It all goes back to coaching. At the end of the day, the intentional congruence is, it all goes back to my belief that everybody needs a coach in life. I love it. I wrote the book for churches because my pastor asked me to coach him one summer and he said, man, I was giving him all these strategies we use over in the coaching world.
Speaker 2: (30:54)
And he’s like, well, our church is not doing any of these things. And I’m like, well, well your church is just a structure. You’re trying to build something dynamic where people come back over and over and over and over. Right. Well that’s what we’re trying to do. So if there’s tactics we’re using that you’re not using, would you be open to use him? He’s like, you got to write a book on this. And I resist it. I’m like, man, I, I’m not a pastor. I’m not a pastor. I’m not qualified to write a book for churches. And it’s interesting that this book is that there’s a hungry group of pastors out there who go in, this is what we need to be reading. This is what we need to hear. This is what we need to be not being taught. That’s right. It’s just a, it’s a, I call it a day and uh, not deja VU.
Speaker 2: (31:36)
Deja VU is where you’ve heard something before seems comfortable. Vagi day is where you bring a new way of thinking to an old perspective. It’s like I’m bringing a twist. Like I’m like as a churchgoer my whole life. Me and Tim story had a fascinating conversation about this cause he started congregation church, you know, and so he said, I gotta help you get this book in the Christian leaders hands around the country. That’s the correlation of hip my lead. And I have together, you know, that’s, that’s kind of the common bond between those three speakers at 10 X between me and my lead. And uh,
Speaker 1: (32:08)
yeah, me and my let’s podcast. It was very, at the end we started jamming religion for a long my auger. Yeah. Well I appreciate you being on the show and I’m excited for Lou to come out in January and I’m excited.
Speaker 2: (32:21)
I, I appreciate you. I knew the first time you and I talked that you were a genuine dude and, and I looked at some of your past conferences and I, I just, I think this is going to be a great conference. If you’re out there and you’re thinking about coming to this conference, I’m telling you, you will get your money’s worth. I’ve looked at the speakers, I’ve looked, the lineup I’ve looked at, I just think may come out and enjoy salt Lake. Right. Come out and enjoy it. Yeah, it’s a beautiful place. So, so go with us. I’m going to be there. So my team members are going to be there. My wife’s looking at going there with me, you know, so it’s all a good thing. We’re excited. Love it. Well, thanks so much for being on the show, man. Thank you. Thank you much love guys.
Speaker 2: (32:58)
We’ll see ya. I’m coach Michael Burt. And many years ago I wrote a book called person of interest. And the book was intended to be a roadmap for me to become a person of influence. And it was from an aspirational place, right? Like I’m young, I want to build a business that’s attractive and, and, and so I sit down on a napkin one day and we have these Cracker barrels here in Tennessee. I don’t know if you have those in salt Lake city. These were French toast. So, so we said, I wrote down on a napkin, I want to become a person of interest. I want to, was it while you were playing the little like T yeah, the triangle to you man. Cause that’s, that’s, that’s what you do at Cracker barrel. Right? But the concept is big. So I’ve got this podcast and I thank you for being in Tennessee.
Speaker 2: (33:45)
I’ve got Sam Taggart here, right. And um, and he started a movement and I believe people of interest, that’s one thing they do. They create new things. They go to new places, they, they inspire people, right? Like, people of interest are out in the world doing it. They ain’t talking about doing it. Sam, they’re doing it. So let’s talk about this movement that you started as a door to door salesman. When I was 11, 11 years old, what were you selling? I started doing like little magazines and then I got into painting the addresses on the curbs. And I did that all through high school. I had 11 of my buddies working for me, you know, we called ourselves the Gutterman, you know, spray painting the numbers to the all through high school. And I’d never done anything other than knock doors. So how many years told Howard are you now?
Speaker 2: (34:31)
29 so you’ve been doing that 18 years. So when you study mastery, 10 years dedicated practice, did you have coaching along the way? Yes. Great mentorship. A lot of good coaches. Okay. So, so here’s what’s interesting about this door to door thing is that some of the most successful people I have ever worked with, I’m talking about people worth hundreds of millions of dollars when I asked them, what’s two things that you did top get here? You know almost everyone says they sold books door to door for Southwestern. Yes, great company. And they went to a Dale Carnegie course, right? I’m talking about even older generation. I’m talking about like 70 year old dudes, right? And they said coach number one, I sold books door to door for Southwestern. And number two I went to Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people and how to speak publicly speak. So when you were growing up living years old, what’s the value? Cause I have a seven year old daughter. Okay. And I’m only just announced last I think last night that we’re having a second child. So thank you so excited about that. And I’m a coach. Talk to me about the talk to all the people out there about the value of learning how to go door to door at 11 and how to sale. And how to overcome objection and rejection. Like how, how powerful is that?
Speaker 1: (35:50)
It is. The whole reason I started this movement is because I look at, there’s a, there’s a book called the diminishing American adult or the vanishing American adult. Okay. And it’s all about this generation of people that fail to communicate. Like it’s, there’s this communication deficit and I look at what I’m starting in, the movement that I’m creating is to help advocate door to door selling simply because it’s my way to give back to the younger generation of saying you need to get your feet like wet and cut your teeth and rejection and hard work and communication and belly to belly conversation on a consistent basis with strangers. Because the, the, the education in my opinion, and I’ve heard this quoted in many different Ash aspects, is one year in door to door sales is the equivalent of a college degree in business. And you look at it like what you learned just being out there facing rejection and like what you’ve learned about yourself, you know, like can you be somebody gets back up on your feet after they get yelled at. And you know what I mean? Like yeah. And so that’s one of the biggest things that I’m pushing. So we’re actually going with our nonprofits who started the door door association and we’re meeting with colleges and creating sales degrees and you know, things like that just cause it’s the heartbeat of the economy. If you think about it, like, you know, it’s one form of selling, but it’s also one of the most pure forms of selling things.
Speaker 2: (37:17)
Let’s go back to something you said. What are your personal thoughts about rejection? Because I have a very strong belief about rejection that I learned when I was 25 years old. Okay. And before I tell you my belief, I want to hear because I have a kids Academy and online Academy for kids. Oh that’s cool. And one of the things I cover in there is how to handle objection and rejection. Cause I think kids don’t know how to handle that. No. And so what’s your personal thought about rejection?
Speaker 1: (37:44)
Well, I think it’s, it’s almost like the liberal movement. I don’t even know if it’s liberals. I, I mean I’m not trying to get political, but it’s almost this, this, lately there’s been this fear to allow kids to get rejected. And that’s a big part of this vanishing American adult. This is stoic that is being suppressed because they don’t allow people to be rejected. It’s almost like we all want participation trophies, right? I saw this YouTube video of invisible soccer being played and I’m like, you’re playing soccer without the ball. Like you just cause they don’t wanna hurt anybody’s feelings. You know what I mean? And I’m sitting here like, I think rejection is the fastest way to build somebody’s character. And it is the fastest way to realize true progression. Because without rejection, there’s no way for you to develop any kind of skill you, you look at like
Speaker 2: (38:36)
even working out, you have to break your muscle karate. You have to let, you know, you just look at each thing, you have to get knocked down to actually learn something. Yeah. So I embrace it. Well, it’s interesting, it’s interesting that you say that because I, I agree with you. Could it be possible that the worst year of your life is actually the best year of your life? And usually you look back on it. And so, so when I was 25 years old, I thought I was gonna marry this person that I said, I just know this is the woman I’m supposed to marry. So I bought an engagement ring and before I give her the engagement ring, we break up. Okay. And, and it was a real sad story. Uh, I put the engagement ring at a bank, you know, in a lockbox, and then our relationship deteriorated.
Speaker 2: (39:20)
And then, Oh, and then the day I knew, I thought, we’re going to break up. I went and got the ring and I went to a restaurant with her and she says, Michael, I love you, but I don’t love you enough to marry you. And I was depressed, man. I was felt so rejected, thought this was the woman I harbored so much guilt. What did I do? How did I do it? And I was depressed for six months. Now I tell you that because during this period, a person comes along in my life, he’s beautiful Italian woman named Octavia Fontana. I write about her, one of my books, and she said, the way you’re looking at this is all wrong. And I’m like, what do you mean I wanted her? She did not want me. Right. That’s rejection. And she said, no, she may want something different than what you have to offer, but there will be lots of people that want exactly what you have.
Speaker 2: (40:15)
Ooh, I like that. And that good. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. And she said, you can’t. She said, I’m interested in you, this beautiful Italian woman. She said, but you can’t see it because you’re living in the past thinking about her. Yeah. It’s that whole selective amnesia and perspective. And oftentimes when we have the wrong perspective around rejection, it’s kinda like the Michael Jordan quote. It’s like you, I’ve missed way more game winning shots. I’ve missed way more, you know what I mean? And I get all this accolade. Yeah, but I think what happens is because of that fear of rejection or the anxiety that is around, what if I got rejected, it paralyzes people to not shoot, to not exactly to not, not fear. It’s fear, scarcity. And so it’s kind of like, well, just realize that you’re going to get rejected if you don’t try some way.
Speaker 2: (41:01)
Some will, some won’t. Keep on moving. Keep on moving. Now let’s talk about this movement because I’m very fascinated by this. You have created a movement like, like you see a need in the market. Yes. Universities need to have door to door sales skills, right? We need to soak professional associations. I’m like, and you just are taking action on it. Just doing it like, Hey, here I am. Right? What? Where did that come from in you? Where did this prey drive come from in you? Was it the way you were raised? Was it exposure to certain things growing up? What? Where do you, where would you say, because people of interest, I’ve never met a lazy person of interest. Now Bradley and I disagree about this. My buddy Bradley, he says, I’ve met plenty lazy people of enters, right? And I’m like, he thinks he’s lazy. And I’m like, no, you get up at four 30 in the morning, you’re at light speed all day. You’re having conversation for 10 hours. You are in there working on Saturdays. Like you’re willing to go anywhere in the world to promote your brand. Like, like that’s not lazy man. In comparison to how he thinks I work. He says, you work hard. I’m lazy. Right. Here’s my point. I don’t think people have interests are lazy. They’ve got a, they’ve got a prey drive.
Speaker 1: (42:14)
Yeah. I, it’s actually an interesting question. Um, you know, I’ve, I’ve, since a little age, you know, I might, I grab golf balls and go to the golf course and sling those, you know what I mean? Like for me, I’m not very competitive. Like I, I’m competitive in the sense of it’s internal. It’s not like I want to beat you. It’s more so like I just know I have greatness within. And so I get competitive with myself. Like I just, I guess I’m really just passionate about progression and I feel like if something is trying to clip my wings or suppress me, and since starting my own couple of businesses, I have a couple of software companies and some other stuff and um, but I found that I am an addict to almost creation. Yeah. And it’s like when I feel like I’m in creation mode and creating new things or get almost like a hi and I maybe just become addicted to that, you know what I mean? It’s this addicted to, to creating and watching your creation kind of come alive and the impact that it makes and the, anyway, so that, that to me, like I always just liked, you know, one impacting others and, and, and kind of this, what can I do to be my very best? And then also kind of this creation is what I believe.
Speaker 2: (43:26)
Creative beings. Yeah. And I think we’re unhappy when we’re stagnant. Yeah. We were hardwired to create, produce, move, right. Circulate, make something happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: (43:39)
I think the world kind of suppresses like normal jobs and normal and that’s maybe why I love door to door and that’s why I’m advocating it. There’s no ceiling. You can make as much as you want. If you want to work as hard. There’s a thousand homes, just a mile them, the top money earners and door to door. What do they earn? Oh, million. 2 million. I mean, you can make seven figures selling, selling. What do we sell our roofs? Satellite. How many doors do they not come? I mean the good ones, 200 300 doors a day. You know what I mean? It’s, it’s, they know how to not
Speaker 2: (44:10)
is it, is it, I mean it’s, it sounds physically taxi.
Speaker 1: (44:15)
I think emotionally, why do people not do it is it’s, I always say door to door is the most inefficient, efficient way to do business. Inefficient. Because yeah, I have to take my physical body into the cold end of the hall and have the blood, sweat and tears and I have to like, it is a physical, mental rejection, all second, every, you know what I mean? Grind. Yeah. But it’s, it’s inefficient in the sense of, you know, marketing, I could do a funnel and hit more people at the same time and this and that, but if we had a race, me and you race, we have to sell a product and you go try to put some ad together and this and that and this and do some funnel and some drip campaign and this and that. And it’s like, let’s do a race to see, you can go sell a roof or an alarm or whatever.
Speaker 1: (44:57)
I would win hands down if you sent me out in the streets and you said, let’s go build some marketing thing. And I think too often, you know, it’s simple in business, so many people complicate the business metrics, opportunities and closing percentage, right? The more of each of those and the more people doing it equals more revenue, right? So if I can build a monster team that’s talking to more people about a product, right? And I can have a good closing percentage, well that’s what creates business. And I think so many businesses, they overcomplicate that. You know what I mean? There’s, there’s hundreds of consumers out there, whether it’s B2B, door to door. Thinking about this concept, you seen the bell, the bell for Cardone interview. Yep. What was your thoughts about that? I loved, well Belfort spoke at DDD con so he actually crushed it.
Speaker 1: (45:43)
So grant Cardon this is what’s funny. He spoke the first year except not for us down the hall, like a an alarm company. Oh wow. Says you know what door to door con’s going on the week of door to door con just cause I was, their top rep is, I won’t say names, but I was a big poster child there. I left them and out of spite they booked the room down the hall from door to door con. Oh wow. And they bring cannon Cardone in just to say we’re going to try to recruit at this event. It was a very lose. We win, you lose, let’s try to like mess with this. Sure. And anyway, so Cardona gets up there and just starts making fun of everybody and, and it was just, it was like very low energy. It was coming from a place of not good and Kardon is great.
Speaker 1: (46:26)
I love his books and stuff. And Belfort came from a place of very repentant, very like, it was very humbling. I, I wasn’t a huge fan of dealing with some of the logistics and stuff and there was whatever. But at the end of the day I gained a new respect for Belfort. Wow. And so I’ve, you know, I’ve interacted with them both quite a bit and both of them been involved in door to door con and um, but watching how Cardone and Belfort interacted, I said, when it comes to sales skills, you could tell Belfort was very much more poised. Like, I hate it. You know, I, I’m going to pick a side on that. I love them both. But it was, it was awesome to kind of watch them navigate to that. And listen, I thought, I thought it was a great interview and, and you know, um, I thought it was a great interview. I had my sales team watch it multiple times because there were some solid takeaways. It’s like, Hey, I get it. I understand where you’re, where you’re coming from. I understand. Uh, I get also get that Cardone
Speaker 2: (47:30)
is in a season of life of transitioning from a salesman to a businessman. I agree. And he wants to talk about running a business. He don’t want to talk about selling. He’s done that for 30 years. Yes.
Speaker 1: (47:40)
And I, and I saw that side and I’m like, but you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re trying to take things out of context as I was like like stay in it, do this for the sales guy. Cause the sales guys who knew as we were talking about this concept of person of interest, I mean the, the interview drove what both of their person of interest a hundred percent
Speaker 2: (47:57)
controversy and it created all of these things. But you know, I’m really impressed by the movement that you have going and I think, um, I applaud you for being such a young guy and you’re trying to tackle such big goals. To me that is what a person of interest does. They don’t talk about it. They are about it. So let’s, let’s finish by talking about your, your, uh, conference. Cause I think it takes some guts to have a conference. It takes some guts, man. I speak at these conferences all over the world and I’ve even looked at having my own conferences, like monster nation conferences and I’m doing events, you know, story, Tim story and have grown on tour next year and like eight cities, you know. But I think it takes some real guts to say I’m doing it man.
Speaker 1: (48:43)
Oh it was a neat own tell, tell everybody about this thing you’re going to laugh or like not believe me. How it all found like started, I mean I’m, I’m on a meditation retreat three days fast in the desert. Oh, I’m talking like solo by herself. Dropped off no food, no, like just, yeah. I’m like, I don’t know why I’m in this place in the first place. This is a terrible situation to be in. Let’s be real. And so I’m like, what did I get myself into? This is day two and I’m sitting there and I have a vision and I’m not a visionary guy. Like, I literally am not, I’m not like, I don’t dream, I’m not like a, I’m not a big dreamer kind of guy in the first place. Like, Oh, big goals. I’m going to have a jet one day. Like I’m very like pretty realistic now and have this vision of me speaking on this massive stage.
Speaker 1: (49:26)
And I was like, where the hell was that? And I still have not spoke on that stage. So I still vividly remember what the stage looked like, what the people audience looked like. And I was like, we’re still not there yet, but I kept asking, what is this? What is this? What is this? What is this? Cause it’s not, I was running a solar company and anyway, um, it was like, you need to host an event. Yeah. And then for door to door and you need to give it a good name. You need to start this movement. You need to like your, the guy. And I was like, I am the guy. Why me? You know, it was kind of one of those chosen moments of like, Whoa, I’m the guy. And so I was like, okay, I better take action. That was very potent.
Speaker 1: (50:01)
That was very real. So I called buddy, I was like, I’m gonna just, uh, let’s do this. And I was like, I’m going to do this. So I go on a Facebook live cause that’s my version of if I say I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it. Then just like, uh, run a marathon. I said I was going to run a marathon. Okay, I have to do that now. I’m a man of my word. And uh, so I get on Facebook, Oh, I’m going to host this event can be cool. And then people started to be like, yeah, that’s way awesome. I thought of that idea. This is great. And then half the people were like, you’re crazy. Yeah, it will be a murder Fest. They will kill each other because our industry is so cut throat, it’s going to be recruitment frenzy.
Speaker 1: (50:34)
Like hell Nope. I’m never coming number supporting this. It’s very controversial. Still is very controversial. Good. Like it is. I’m a no hates it. Like, I hate that concept cause I don’t want my sales guys to go there and get recruited. Yeah. I’m like, well that’s called scarcity. And then there’s the other half that are abundant are like, no, we all can learn. We can all rising tide lifts all ships, right? There’s the split, which is fun. And uh, we just launch it and all of a sudden I’m thinking maybe we could get four or 500 people. We had 850 people our first year. Nice. 1650 or second year. Wow. And this year on track to have 3000 people, here we go. Um, you know, you’re speaking at it and ed, my let and Tim Grover and the speakers just get better and better and better. And I think that it’s, people are seeing that unity instead of scarcity and cutthroat news as much more energetic and fulfilling.
Speaker 1: (51:25)
And I think people are seeing that rising tides do lift all ships. And what’s beautiful is seeing companies cocreate instead of compete seeing companies share business and share strategies instead of hide their secrets. I don’t want to tell them my competitor to what I’m doing. It’s like, are you effing kidding me? Like, yeah, you want, you know? And it’s just, yeah. Watching how beautiful it is to see people play in abundance and at the highest level, right is it’s, I feel honored just to be part of that. You know what I mean? I just happened to be the catalyst that sparks inspiring man. That’s PR person of interest status. So thank you for coming to Tennessee. I’m excited about being with you at your conference January, January. Tell everybody where they can get, take econ.com D to D con and if you’re not doing door to door, in my opinion, if you’re in sales or leadership or recruiting or building teams, it’s just a sales conference.
Speaker 1: (52:20)
It just happens to be called D to D culture. I mean, it’s probably some good people. I’m telling you, you will get your money’s worth at this conference. Sam is doing it right. So go to salt Lake city a couple days. It’s a beautiful city. I love it there. Ski seasons prime right there, man. That’s, it’s the deal. You need to be there. Sam Taggart everybody person of interest. We believe people have interests, moved the world down the field. We believe they have certain ingredients and we believe they, they don’t talk about doing it. They go do it, love it. And they inspired people. So thank you. Big gala for to being with you. Thank you.